1
00:00:06,140 --> 00:00:02,810
on this episode of skeptical if you're

2
00:00:08,509 --> 00:00:06,150
talking about climate change and you're

3
00:00:12,169 --> 00:00:08,519
talking about doing something about it

4
00:00:14,180 --> 00:00:12,179
no no no no I don't talk about doing

5
00:00:15,919 --> 00:00:14,190
something about it Alex well I'm not

6
00:00:18,769 --> 00:00:15,929
doing something in your own heart

7
00:00:21,230 --> 00:00:18,779
to prepare for what's inevitable I'm

8
00:00:23,570 --> 00:00:21,240
just saying if we buy into what you're

9
00:00:26,599 --> 00:00:23,580
saying isn't that the inevitable future

10
00:00:28,460 --> 00:00:26,609
it's not twenty people getting together

11
00:00:30,650 --> 00:00:28,470
and deciding they're gonna live a

12
00:00:31,370 --> 00:00:30,660
different way that isn't gonna be the

13
00:00:33,530 --> 00:00:31,380
future

14
00:00:35,620 --> 00:00:33,540
you're wasting time by talking about

15
00:00:39,229 --> 00:00:35,630
something I don't give a about I

16
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:39,239
don't care about the climate Sciences

17
00:00:43,790 --> 00:00:41,489
hoax I don't care about where some

18
00:00:45,380 --> 00:00:43,800
scientists were I don't care about that

19
00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:45,390
that's the vibe I got from you from the

20
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:47,250
beginning Michael and I get from so many

21
00:00:50,959 --> 00:00:49,010
people for some of the death cult

22
00:00:53,150 --> 00:00:50,969
environmentalists they don't want to

23
00:00:55,910 --> 00:00:53,160
waste their time listening to the other

24
00:00:58,790 --> 00:00:55,920
side of it in my world there's not

25
00:01:00,950 --> 00:00:58,800
another side you're still calling

26
00:01:02,810 --> 00:01:00,960
yourself a Christian I'm an evolutionary

27
00:01:04,789 --> 00:01:02,820
Christian I'm a Christian now you're

28
00:01:07,539 --> 00:01:04,799
Christian do you have a passion you

29
00:01:09,740 --> 00:01:07,549
haven't broken free from it Alex Alex

30
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:09,750
that's just who you are I don't know I

31
00:01:15,679 --> 00:01:12,930
am a big my am a Christian naturalist I

32
00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:15,689
have no supernatural beliefs or

33
00:01:20,539 --> 00:01:18,090
otherworldly beliefs at all zip nada

34
00:01:21,950 --> 00:01:20,549
not a one I'm a Christian naturalist so

35
00:01:23,810 --> 00:01:21,960
if you are interpret have no

36
00:01:25,370 --> 00:01:23,820
supernatural beliefs would have talked

37
00:01:27,370 --> 00:01:25,380
about your relationship with Jesus

38
00:01:31,670 --> 00:01:27,380
wasn't that a supernatural relationship

39
00:01:38,389 --> 00:01:31,680
stay with us for skeptic Oh

40
00:01:42,660 --> 00:01:40,710
welcome to skeptical where we explore

41
00:01:45,570 --> 00:01:42,670
controversial science and spirituality

42
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:45,580
with leading researchers thinkers and

43
00:01:50,249 --> 00:01:46,810
their critics

44
00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:50,259
I'm your host Alex Icarus and as a lot

45
00:01:56,550 --> 00:01:53,710
of you know I'm a big fan of the

46
00:01:58,710 --> 00:01:56,560
skeptical forum I love it because you

47
00:02:01,350 --> 00:01:58,720
all are so damn smart I'm always

48
00:02:04,889 --> 00:02:01,360
learning stuff from you guys take for

49
00:02:07,289 --> 00:02:04,899
example today's topic global warming or

50
00:02:10,169 --> 00:02:07,299
as a lot of people like to say climate

51
00:02:13,170 --> 00:02:10,179
change this is a topic that's been

52
00:02:17,850 --> 00:02:13,180
thoroughly hashed out on The Skeptical

53
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:17,860
forum really from all sides and in a lot

54
00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:20,410
of ways I'm super grateful for that

55
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:23,440
because it's such a great skeptical

56
00:02:29,580 --> 00:02:26,370
topic I mean it checks all the boxes

57
00:02:31,289 --> 00:02:29,590
there is the science angle I mean what

58
00:02:33,690 --> 00:02:31,299
do we really know about climate what do

59
00:02:36,690 --> 00:02:33,700
we know about these climate models are

60
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:36,700
they reliable scientifically can we

61
00:02:43,770 --> 00:02:40,810
trust the scientist and who is qualified

62
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:43,780
to speak on climate science these are

63
00:02:48,660 --> 00:02:45,970
all great questions that the kind of

64
00:02:51,780 --> 00:02:48,670
stuff that we love to dig into on

65
00:02:53,990 --> 00:02:51,790
skeptic oh but there's other angles to

66
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:54,000
this topic that I think are just so

67
00:02:58,920 --> 00:02:56,290
fascinating again if we kind of broaden

68
00:03:03,330 --> 00:02:58,930
the lens there's the political there I

69
00:03:05,309 --> 00:03:03,340
say conspiratorial aspect of climate and

70
00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:05,319
we certainly get into a lot of that

71
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:07,510
stuff on this show and I think we can

72
00:03:13,229 --> 00:03:10,090
handle it on this topic as well I mean

73
00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:13,239
what would it mean in terms of policy

74
00:03:17,729 --> 00:03:15,730
change if we were to look at the science

75
00:03:18,809 --> 00:03:17,739
one way versus if we're to look at it

76
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:18,819
another way

77
00:03:24,150 --> 00:03:21,850
and then ultimately who are the

78
00:03:26,099 --> 00:03:24,160
stakeholders behind this and what kind

79
00:03:29,430 --> 00:03:26,109
of power are they wielding that's

80
00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:29,440
another conspiratorial kind of part of

81
00:03:35,370 --> 00:03:31,930
this question and then finally I guess

82
00:03:38,940 --> 00:03:35,380
the third box that I love to check on

83
00:03:41,849 --> 00:03:38,950
this is the issue of spirituality and it

84
00:03:44,250 --> 00:03:41,859
rarely gets discussed when it comes to

85
00:03:45,010 --> 00:03:44,260
climate change but to me it seems

86
00:03:48,550 --> 00:03:45,020
central

87
00:03:52,210 --> 00:03:48,560
to the debate does God need our help to

88
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:52,220
save her planet or is there an evil hand

89
00:03:57,970 --> 00:03:54,770
of manipulation behind this is it either

90
00:04:00,640 --> 00:03:57,980
a quote unquote on the Big Oil shills

91
00:04:03,490 --> 00:04:00,650
who are pumping the brakes on climate

92
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:03,500
change or is it quote unquote the death

93
00:04:08,140 --> 00:04:06,410
cult environmentalists who are pushing

94
00:04:12,070 --> 00:04:08,150
for action at all cost

95
00:04:14,830 --> 00:04:12,080
so there's a lot lot lot I feel like to

96
00:04:16,449 --> 00:04:14,840
talk about on this issue even though it

97
00:04:18,940 --> 00:04:16,459
seems like it's covered so many times I

98
00:04:23,590 --> 00:04:18,950
think there's so many fresh perspectives

99
00:04:25,770 --> 00:04:23,600
to bring to it and wouldn't you know we

100
00:04:28,810 --> 00:04:25,780
have a guest who can do that for us

101
00:04:30,490 --> 00:04:28,820
Michael Dowd is here let me give you a

102
00:04:33,460 --> 00:04:30,500
little bit of his background from the

103
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:33,470
bio that Michael sent me wherever and

104
00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:35,810
Michael Dowd is a best-selling eco

105
00:04:42,130 --> 00:04:39,910
theologian TEDx speaker and pro future

106
00:04:43,780 --> 00:04:42,140
evangelist whose work has been featured

107
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:43,790
in the New York Times LA Times The Wall

108
00:04:47,860 --> 00:04:46,010
Street Journal Washington Post Discovery

109
00:04:50,590 --> 00:04:47,870
television and other television shows

110
00:04:52,690 --> 00:04:50,600
his book thank God for evolution I have

111
00:04:55,150 --> 00:04:52,700
it up there on the screen was endorsed

112
00:04:57,850 --> 00:04:55,160
by six Nobel Prize winning scientists

113
00:05:00,310 --> 00:04:57,860
and I also am showing up there a video

114
00:05:04,420 --> 00:05:00,320
series that he's done which will be

115
00:05:07,510 --> 00:05:04,430
playing some clips from so Michael it is

116
00:05:11,170 --> 00:05:07,520
super awesome and interesting to have

117
00:05:13,750 --> 00:05:11,180
you on skeptic oh thank you so much for

118
00:05:18,010 --> 00:05:13,760
joining me thank you Alex it's a joy to

119
00:05:19,810 --> 00:05:18,020
be here well great you know and as I was

120
00:05:23,380 --> 00:05:19,820
as we were just chatting about a minute

121
00:05:27,310 --> 00:05:23,390
ago there's quite a little story behind

122
00:05:29,140 --> 00:05:27,320
us getting together here and the

123
00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:29,150
discussion we've had maybe you want to

124
00:05:34,210 --> 00:05:31,850
fill folks in a little bit on how we

125
00:05:36,580 --> 00:05:34,220
came together and what we're hoping to

126
00:05:38,770 --> 00:05:36,590
do I kind of laid out my agenda but I

127
00:05:40,090 --> 00:05:38,780
want to make sure that's kind of in sync

128
00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:40,100
with where you'd like to take things

129
00:05:46,690 --> 00:05:43,910
cool well happy to so Rick Archer our

130
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:46,700
mutual friend and colleague was the one

131
00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:48,770
that I think recommended me to you or

132
00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:50,630
you to me I forget but in any case he

133
00:05:55,210 --> 00:05:53,510
got us in touch with each other and and

134
00:05:56,810 --> 00:05:55,220
then I of course I went on and looked at

135
00:06:00,050 --> 00:05:56,820
a lot of your past episodes and

136
00:06:01,370 --> 00:06:00,060
and and saw what you do and at first I

137
00:06:02,900 --> 00:06:01,380
thought well it doesn't look like a good

138
00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:02,910
fit because I'm really not that

139
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:04,710
interested in some of the topics that

140
00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:06,930
you and your guests are quite passionate

141
00:06:14,060 --> 00:06:11,310
about and understandably so my focus has

142
00:06:15,410 --> 00:06:14,070
been for the last eight well the last

143
00:06:17,750 --> 00:06:15,420
thirty years

144
00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:17,760
really the universe story the epic of

145
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:19,650
evolution the history of everyone and

146
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:21,810
everything that comes to us through

147
00:06:26,090 --> 00:06:23,610
global collective intelligence that is

148
00:06:27,530 --> 00:06:26,100
the entire worldwide community of not

149
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:27,540
just scientists but scientists

150
00:06:33,170 --> 00:06:30,930
philosophers theologians and others but

151
00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:33,180
basically it's evidence grounded our

152
00:06:38,030 --> 00:06:35,520
history of human evolution or actually

153
00:06:39,350 --> 00:06:38,040
cosmic evolution life evolution

154
00:06:41,990 --> 00:06:39,360
biological life evolution and human

155
00:06:43,490 --> 00:06:42,000
evolution as one modern day creation

156
00:06:47,060 --> 00:06:43,500
story so I've been doing that for 30

157
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:47,070
years actually 35 years I guess and and

158
00:06:51,350 --> 00:06:49,170
then in the last seven years I've really

159
00:06:55,580 --> 00:06:51,360
taken on understanding the rise and fall

160
00:06:59,360 --> 00:06:55,590
of civilizations ecology especially the

161
00:07:00,860 --> 00:06:59,370
ecological worldview and and and climate

162
00:07:02,570 --> 00:07:00,870
change but not just climate change

163
00:07:04,630 --> 00:07:02,580
really in the last few years abrupt

164
00:07:08,150 --> 00:07:04,640
climate change which is quite different

165
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:08,160
and so yeah that's my pad basically

166
00:07:12,380 --> 00:07:09,810
where science inspiration and

167
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:12,390
sustainability intersect and the reason

168
00:07:17,750 --> 00:07:15,570
that I'm an eco theologian is for me God

169
00:07:19,820 --> 00:07:17,760
is a sacred name a proper name and I

170
00:07:22,220 --> 00:07:19,830
thou name you could say a mythic name

171
00:07:24,350 --> 00:07:22,230
for reality and reality is telling us

172
00:07:26,330 --> 00:07:24,360
some pretty amazing and sobering things

173
00:07:29,690 --> 00:07:26,340
and so yeah look forward to having our

174
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:29,700
conversation okay great no semi and

175
00:07:35,540 --> 00:07:32,490
there was some there's some good as

176
00:07:38,150 --> 00:07:35,550
we're joking about some good tension you

177
00:07:40,670 --> 00:07:38,160
know have familiar for anyone is listen

178
00:07:42,140 --> 00:07:40,680
to this you I have to get to the edge of

179
00:07:44,660 --> 00:07:42,150
things and people don't always agree

180
00:07:47,930 --> 00:07:44,670
with each other and that's okay as long

181
00:07:50,090 --> 00:07:47,940
as it's played out in a way that kind of

182
00:07:52,660 --> 00:07:50,100
informs the discussion I think that's

183
00:07:55,970 --> 00:07:52,670
terrific and that's been the case so far

184
00:07:58,580 --> 00:07:55,980
you just mentioned this echo theologian

185
00:08:01,940 --> 00:07:58,590
thing and I'm showing an image of you

186
00:08:04,670 --> 00:08:01,950
and ecology is the new theology and what

187
00:08:07,070 --> 00:08:04,680
I thought I'd do is an additional way to

188
00:08:10,220 --> 00:08:07,080
introduce where you're coming from is to

189
00:08:13,790 --> 00:08:10,230
play a clip from this video series

190
00:08:18,260 --> 00:08:13,800
and here is the trailer to that video

191
00:08:20,870 --> 00:08:18,270
series let me play that for folks so

192
00:08:24,260 --> 00:08:20,880
this notion of ecology as the heart of

193
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:24,270
theology I call it e Kofi ISM it's not

194
00:08:31,850 --> 00:08:28,890
about believing in anything half of

195
00:08:35,270 --> 00:08:31,860
religion is gagged and tied in the trunk

196
00:08:37,070 --> 00:08:35,280
and the other half of religion are in

197
00:08:38,540 --> 00:08:37,080
the backseat cheering on the

198
00:08:41,650 --> 00:08:38,550
psychopathic politicians that are

199
00:08:46,190 --> 00:08:44,570
you've got thousands maybe millions of

200
00:08:48,380 --> 00:08:46,200
people that are debating whether or not

201
00:08:51,140 --> 00:08:48,390
God exists or whether or not God is real

202
00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:51,150
one the one real God namely reality

203
00:08:53,810 --> 00:08:52,530
force on a fight or not

204
00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:53,820
we've been living out of right

205
00:08:57,620 --> 00:08:55,530
relationship - and we are now about

206
00:09:03,620 --> 00:08:57,630
experienced consequences a biblical

207
00:09:05,630 --> 00:09:03,630
proportion so it's very very nicely done

208
00:09:08,270 --> 00:09:05,640
I got to give you a ton of credit it

209
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:08,280
looks beautiful well shot and there's

210
00:09:14,270 --> 00:09:10,890
many parts to it kind of a lecture

211
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:14,280
series but again nicely done what would

212
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:17,010
you anything to add to that trailer that

213
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:20,130
I showed there um just the fact that

214
00:09:25,700 --> 00:09:23,010
it's a eight session it's two parts part

215
00:09:28,010 --> 00:09:25,710
one is coming home to reality which is

216
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:28,020
four 20-minute sessions and then part

217
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:30,090
two is also four 20-minute sessions

218
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:32,850
that's titled a practical wisdom and

219
00:09:40,220 --> 00:09:35,010
it's designed for secular and religious

220
00:09:41,930 --> 00:09:40,230
study groups basically again it focuses

221
00:09:44,630 --> 00:09:41,940
on what I call the sacred side of

222
00:09:46,430 --> 00:09:44,640
science but how to stay inspired in

223
00:09:51,110 --> 00:09:46,440
challenging times is sort of the heart

224
00:09:54,410 --> 00:09:51,120
of it as well okay great so here's what

225
00:09:56,780 --> 00:09:54,420
I thought we do and this time we have

226
00:09:58,070 --> 00:09:56,790
together and I kind of laid it out at

227
00:10:00,020 --> 00:09:58,080
the beginning but let's go over this

228
00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:00,030
because I thought we'd kind of break

229
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:02,880
this down along the three lines that I

230
00:10:08,390 --> 00:10:05,610
just mentioned the science of it the

231
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:08,400
politics of it and then the spirituality

232
00:10:12,980 --> 00:10:10,890
of it and I have again some clips from

233
00:10:14,570 --> 00:10:12,990
your video and then I have you know

234
00:10:16,940 --> 00:10:14,580
basically just a couple of things that

235
00:10:18,950 --> 00:10:16,950
I've done not clips but just full hearts

236
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:18,960
that I do so that sounds okay sounds

237
00:10:22,970 --> 00:10:21,450
great so where I thought I'd start

238
00:10:23,610 --> 00:10:22,980
rather than start with the science

239
00:10:26,850 --> 00:10:23,620
because that's

240
00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:26,860
but he starts with is to start with the

241
00:10:32,940 --> 00:10:30,910
politics of global warming and as a way

242
00:10:35,970 --> 00:10:32,950
to kind of segue into that why don't I

243
00:10:38,430 --> 00:10:35,980
play another clip from your video series

244
00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:38,440
and then I'll see if you think this kind

245
00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:41,350
of captures where you're coming from so

246
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:44,320
here goes so let's take a look at what

247
00:10:48,210 --> 00:10:46,480
we what is reality telling us and this

248
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:48,220
again is the IPCC the Intergovernmental

249
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:51,010
Panel on Climate Change best-case and

250
00:10:54,270 --> 00:10:52,930
medium case scenarios worst case

251
00:10:56,610 --> 00:10:54,280
scenario is we go extinct

252
00:10:59,160 --> 00:10:56,620
there'll be bigger storms bigger

253
00:11:01,680 --> 00:10:59,170
droughts bigger you know growing deserts

254
00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:01,690
more intense wildfires and more

255
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:04,570
wildfires and shifts in where we can

256
00:11:10,530 --> 00:11:08,130
live and grow food habitability and

257
00:11:13,230 --> 00:11:10,540
agriculture this is now inevitable we

258
00:11:16,140 --> 00:11:13,240
can't avoid some level of this sea level

259
00:11:18,450 --> 00:11:16,150
will continue to rise 25 to 40 feet and

260
00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:18,460
this is true if every human being went

261
00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:21,040
extinct tonight we're going to go back

262
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:23,950
to firewood and muscle power and that's

263
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:26,290
what will be in the future even if we

264
00:11:31,730 --> 00:11:28,720
have significant technologies they will

265
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:31,740
be much lower scale as the Seas rise

266
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:33,850
population will shrink to a half a

267
00:11:40,670 --> 00:11:37,120
million or less due to drought famine

268
00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:40,680
war and living in a post-antibiotic age

269
00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:44,470
okay so obviously I clipped some of the

270
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:46,510
parts out there that segment of the

271
00:11:50,580 --> 00:11:49,090
video is a 20-minute segment but do you

272
00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:50,590
think we kind of captured accurately

273
00:11:56,940 --> 00:11:54,760
there your your read of that yeah what I

274
00:11:59,070 --> 00:11:56,950
what I do prior to that just so Fiat

275
00:12:02,280 --> 00:11:59,080
folks know the context is I paint out a

276
00:12:04,980 --> 00:12:02,290
hundred year timeline the history of the

277
00:12:07,980 --> 00:12:04,990
universe 13.8 to billion years in a

278
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:07,990
hundred years at that scale Homo sapiens

279
00:12:12,060 --> 00:12:09,490
have been around for the last day the

280
00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:12,070
last 24 hours roughly the last 400,000

281
00:12:18,510 --> 00:12:15,760
years and of that we lived more or less

282
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:18,520
sustainably to speak mythically we lived

283
00:12:23,070 --> 00:12:20,320
in the garden that is we lived as other

284
00:12:25,380 --> 00:12:23,080
animals do and our instincts guided us

285
00:12:26,460 --> 00:12:25,390
to do the right thing that is the things

286
00:12:29,610 --> 00:12:26,470
that led to our survival and

287
00:12:31,050 --> 00:12:29,620
reproduction and and in the last half

288
00:12:32,910 --> 00:12:31,060
hours when we started seeing

289
00:12:34,740 --> 00:12:32,920
anthropocentrism human centeredness

290
00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:34,750
where it's all about us we don't care

291
00:12:38,410 --> 00:12:36,350
about any other species it's all about

292
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:38,420
and turns out anthropocentrism a

293
00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:40,160
self-destructive and so then I talked

294
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:42,649
about okay here's what's been happening

295
00:12:46,060 --> 00:12:44,240
and then I say now what can we project

296
00:12:48,699 --> 00:12:46,070
out what can we say confidently is the

297
00:12:50,290 --> 00:12:48,709
next minute the next 250 years because

298
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,300
I'm a cosmic century timeline every

299
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:52,399
minutes 250 years what can we what can

300
00:12:57,009 --> 00:12:53,810
we count on that's either highly likely

301
00:12:58,090 --> 00:12:57,019
or inevitable in the next 250 years and

302
00:13:01,240 --> 00:12:58,100
so that was the beginning of that

303
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,250
section and yeah okay so great and

304
00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:02,959
you're kind of getting into some of the

305
00:13:06,129 --> 00:13:04,430
science there which is awesome you know

306
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:06,139
your understanding of the science and

307
00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:08,930
the IPCC's understanding the science

308
00:13:12,610 --> 00:13:10,880
which is great and I want to dive into

309
00:13:14,199 --> 00:13:12,620
that and we'll talk about that more but

310
00:13:16,569 --> 00:13:14,209
I do want to kind of shift gears to the

311
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:16,579
political part for a second and I guess

312
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:19,130
the question I have for you is if

313
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:20,930
someone looked at the science and came

314
00:13:26,139 --> 00:13:22,850
to the same conclusions that you have

315
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:26,149
there in that video what laws what

316
00:13:33,490 --> 00:13:29,600
policies would you see being necessary

317
00:13:36,129 --> 00:13:33,500
to be enacted in order to support the

318
00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:36,139
natural conclusions of that science and

319
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:39,110
I guess the follow that sky lead-in to

320
00:13:44,379 --> 00:13:40,970
the question would you see this as being

321
00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:44,389
some kind of normal political process

322
00:13:49,660 --> 00:13:46,910
inside of our existing democracy inside

323
00:13:50,980 --> 00:13:49,670
of the United States Constitution or do

324
00:13:52,990 --> 00:13:50,990
you think because this is a global issue

325
00:13:54,340 --> 00:13:53,000
we'd have to transcend that or do you

326
00:13:55,150 --> 00:13:54,350
think because everyone might not go

327
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:55,160
along with it

328
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:57,170
we'd have to transcend that well how do

329
00:14:01,930 --> 00:13:59,839
you feel about that well it's certainly

330
00:14:06,009 --> 00:14:01,940
a legitimate and good question it's not

331
00:14:08,439 --> 00:14:06,019
one that I have a lot to offer because

332
00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:08,449
what I tend to do is step back like I

333
00:14:12,519 --> 00:14:09,470
said the last seven and a half years

334
00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:12,529
I've been looking at the history of

335
00:14:17,980 --> 00:14:14,690
politics like how has polity

336
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:17,990
how has governmental structures how have

337
00:14:23,259 --> 00:14:20,720
humans in groups large enough to need

338
00:14:25,870 --> 00:14:23,269
government or to need some form of

339
00:14:27,490 --> 00:14:25,880
governance over the last seven thousand

340
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:27,500
years how has that worked and it turns

341
00:14:34,150 --> 00:14:29,810
out that in human centered cultures that

342
00:14:35,740 --> 00:14:34,160
is anthropocentric cultures or the

343
00:14:38,410 --> 00:14:35,750
politics almost always becomes

344
00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:38,420
dysfunctional because power groups

345
00:14:41,770 --> 00:14:39,950
it's happened to become corrupt and the

346
00:14:44,740 --> 00:14:41,780
more power they have the easier and more

347
00:14:47,650 --> 00:14:44,750
corrupt they can become and so I don't

348
00:14:50,740 --> 00:14:47,660
have I don't hold out any hope zero like

349
00:14:52,420 --> 00:14:50,750
zero on a scale of zero to ten I hold

350
00:14:57,900 --> 00:14:52,430
out no hope whatsoever that our

351
00:15:01,690 --> 00:14:57,910
political systems can solve or even

352
00:15:04,090 --> 00:15:01,700
helpfully respond to abrupt climate

353
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:04,100
change right so I guess that's what I'm

354
00:15:06,580 --> 00:15:05,600
getting it and I'm glad you're being

355
00:15:10,030 --> 00:15:06,590
Frank about it

356
00:15:12,330 --> 00:15:10,040
so Constitution out the window democracy

357
00:15:15,820 --> 00:15:12,340
more no it's not so much out the window

358
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:15,830
constitutions become irrelevant then

359
00:15:20,350 --> 00:15:18,530
once more institutions our Constitution

360
00:15:23,260 --> 00:15:20,360
our United States Constitution our

361
00:15:27,010 --> 00:15:23,270
current system of governance democracy

362
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:27,020
you know last time around I didn't vote

363
00:15:30,730 --> 00:15:28,880
for Trump but 50% of people voted for

364
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:30,740
Trump and Trump became president and

365
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:32,210
there was screaming and crying in

366
00:15:37,090 --> 00:15:34,130
discretes gnashing of teeth a major

367
00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:37,100
uprising but we went ahead and stuck it

368
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:39,590
out with with the guy who was elected

369
00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:40,850
president well that's what I had another

370
00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:42,470
liberal that's what happened on the

371
00:15:46,750 --> 00:15:43,790
liberal end of the spectrum that was a

372
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:46,760
lot of people we're celebrating right on

373
00:15:52,060 --> 00:15:50,000
and so my point is let's say this comes

374
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:52,070
down to another kind of election and

375
00:15:57,370 --> 00:15:56,090
people aren't swayed by what we're gonna

376
00:15:58,720 --> 00:15:57,380
get into the science but let's say

377
00:16:00,880 --> 00:15:58,730
people aren't swayed by the science like

378
00:16:03,340 --> 00:16:00,890
I am I don't really think so then what

379
00:16:06,010 --> 00:16:03,350
do we do I bid do we abide by the

380
00:16:08,590 --> 00:16:06,020
democratic system in our country what

381
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:08,600
are we doing an international basis let

382
00:16:16,540 --> 00:16:10,730
me yeah so this is going to be a

383
00:16:19,780 --> 00:16:16,550
curveball I suspect there's nothing we

384
00:16:22,030 --> 00:16:19,790
can do abrupt climate change means that

385
00:16:24,910 --> 00:16:22,040
climate change that throughout Earth's

386
00:16:27,370 --> 00:16:24,920
history usually took between a thousand

387
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:27,380
and ten thousand years is happening on a

388
00:16:32,410 --> 00:16:30,890
scale of one human lifetime there is

389
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:32,420
nothing we can do

390
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:35,090
if seven billion people woke up tonight

391
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:37,730
all convinced to do the same good thing

392
00:16:41,860 --> 00:16:40,130
it wouldn't be enough because the Arctic

393
00:16:43,870 --> 00:16:41,870
is already wigging out in others we've

394
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:43,880
already tipped certain tipping points

395
00:16:48,319 --> 00:16:46,290
that there's nothing politically

396
00:16:49,999 --> 00:16:48,329
we can do there's nothing economic I

397
00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:50,009
mean there has never been in the history

398
00:16:56,030 --> 00:16:54,180
of humanity a market-based system that

399
00:16:57,470 --> 00:16:56,040
didn't self implode that didn't

400
00:16:59,840 --> 00:16:57,480
self-destruct that didn't become

401
00:17:02,269 --> 00:16:59,850
ecocidal because market-based systems

402
00:17:04,159 --> 00:17:02,279
should be primary reality that is the

403
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:04,169
air water soil life upon which we depend

404
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:07,439
not as primary as it needs to be every

405
00:17:11,569 --> 00:17:09,600
sustainable culture did that they treat

406
00:17:13,220 --> 00:17:11,579
it as merely resources for our benefit

407
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:13,230
and a place for our waste that is

408
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:16,770
unsustainable by definition so so but

409
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:20,010
yeah we're oh go ahead I just don't see

410
00:17:25,250 --> 00:17:23,250
I mean you're you're first of all I have

411
00:17:27,949 --> 00:17:25,260
no opinion I've not looked for example I

412
00:17:28,610 --> 00:17:27,959
haven't watched anything on the right or

413
00:17:30,740 --> 00:17:28,620
on the left

414
00:17:33,950 --> 00:17:30,750
I've watched nothing about the so called

415
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:33,960
impeachment process it's going on nearby

416
00:17:37,820 --> 00:17:35,490
but I'm not talking about that what I'm

417
00:17:39,799 --> 00:17:37,830
talking about is is a reality here that

418
00:17:42,350 --> 00:17:39,809
I think is so often left out of this

419
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:42,360
discussion and that is that if you're

420
00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:45,690
talking about climate change and you're

421
00:17:51,710 --> 00:17:48,360
talking about doing something about it

422
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:51,720
no no no no no I don't talk about doing

423
00:17:55,490 --> 00:17:53,730
something about it Alex well I'm not

424
00:17:58,460 --> 00:17:55,500
doing something in your own heart to

425
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:58,470
prepare for what's inevitable except

426
00:18:02,870 --> 00:18:00,960
what's inevitable and then fire your

427
00:18:05,210 --> 00:18:02,880
grief if you have grief some people

428
00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:05,220
don't have that and then invest in what

429
00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:07,620
is Pro future and soul nourishing I do

430
00:18:12,049 --> 00:18:09,600
not think there's anything we can do to

431
00:18:13,850 --> 00:18:12,059
stop climate change not just K okay but

432
00:18:16,370 --> 00:18:13,860
but there's a mix there's a certain

433
00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:16,380
crossover in what you said okay so one

434
00:18:21,530 --> 00:18:19,710
two this is extremely apocalyptic four

435
00:18:24,649 --> 00:18:21,540
and that's okay if that's what it is

436
00:18:28,970 --> 00:18:24,659
that's what it is but then I don't

437
00:18:31,580 --> 00:18:28,980
necessarily get the shift to prepare for

438
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:31,590
a future you're saying there is no

439
00:18:36,890 --> 00:18:34,080
future and I'm saying the reality the

440
00:18:39,620 --> 00:18:36,900
political reality the policy reality the

441
00:18:41,659 --> 00:18:39,630
stakeholder analysis reality of what

442
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:41,669
you're saying we've seen it before it

443
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:44,610
leads to you know people taking to the

444
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:46,710
streets and revolting and grab your m16

445
00:18:50,990 --> 00:18:48,960
and every person for themselves because

446
00:18:53,180 --> 00:18:51,000
you're talking about a 90% reduction in

447
00:18:54,890 --> 00:18:53,190
population we have to be realistic I

448
00:18:56,450 --> 00:18:54,900
mean that's where I I see a disconnect

449
00:18:58,820 --> 00:18:56,460
with sometimes what you say you know

450
00:19:00,010 --> 00:18:58,830
person of the heart and faith let's

451
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:00,020
prepare for your

452
00:19:04,030 --> 00:19:02,210
plant your seeds in your garden no it's

453
00:19:05,470 --> 00:19:04,040
gonna be whoever has the guns and drives

454
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:05,480
around in trucks and comes and takes

455
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:07,850
your I mean we know what what chaos

456
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:10,160
at that level looks like isn't that

457
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:11,510
where we're heading if we're heading

458
00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:14,330
towards the apocalypse I first of all

459
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:16,270
there have been over a hundred

460
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:18,770
apocalypses in the last seven thousand

461
00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:21,050
years we know of about a hundred and

462
00:19:24,750 --> 00:19:22,670
twenty civilizations that have become

463
00:19:26,830 --> 00:19:24,760
great and on their way up when the

464
00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:26,840
economy's expanding when they're more

465
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:29,260
than enough resources life is good

466
00:19:33,700 --> 00:19:32,210
liberal quote unquote values tend to

467
00:19:36,250 --> 00:19:33,710
predominate then there's a tipping point

468
00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:36,260
meaning that it basically you go into

469
00:19:42,190 --> 00:19:38,750
overshoot you have overshot the carrying

470
00:19:43,630 --> 00:19:42,200
capacity of the your base and then on

471
00:19:45,580 --> 00:19:43,640
the way down which it usually takes

472
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:45,590
about half the time typically a century

473
00:19:50,140 --> 00:19:48,410
or two to decline before you get back to

474
00:19:52,210 --> 00:19:50,150
another Dark Age and so on you're on the

475
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:52,220
downslope it feels like apocalypse every

476
00:19:58,450 --> 00:19:53,600
single time or virtually every single

477
00:20:00,940 --> 00:19:58,460
time so I I don't know how exactly our

478
00:20:04,090 --> 00:20:00,950
society will unravel but what I do know

479
00:20:05,980 --> 00:20:04,100
is it'll be a if if survival is your

480
00:20:07,570 --> 00:20:05,990
issue like if being alive

481
00:20:09,670 --> 00:20:07,580
no matter what is like what it's all

482
00:20:11,380 --> 00:20:09,680
about for you I invite you to consider

483
00:20:13,810 --> 00:20:11,390
the possibility that having twenty

484
00:20:16,060 --> 00:20:13,820
people who know and love you and care

485
00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:16,070
about you is gonna be a hell of a lot

486
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:17,710
more important than having twenty guns

487
00:20:24,250 --> 00:20:20,570
okay brother but you got to understand

488
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:24,260
how that message sounds I mean it it

489
00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:28,130
just doesn't play well it plays way over

490
00:20:33,310 --> 00:20:31,910
on the kind of extremist side and I

491
00:20:35,050 --> 00:20:33,320
would pull it back to just some

492
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:35,060
realities like you're talking about okay

493
00:20:41,710 --> 00:20:39,170
I laid out one reality whereas it's not

494
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:41,720
20 people all loving each other in a car

495
00:20:45,340 --> 00:20:43,490
I mean love I don't mean this kind of

496
00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:45,350
hold on well just let me because it's a

497
00:20:49,330 --> 00:20:47,270
crazy scenario that we're playing out

498
00:20:51,250 --> 00:20:49,340
anyway but it's not people getting

499
00:20:53,770 --> 00:20:51,260
together to form community and make

500
00:20:55,450 --> 00:20:53,780
things because at that level it's about

501
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:55,460
we've seen it in the movies you know a

502
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:57,410
bunch of guys get together with guns

503
00:21:01,480 --> 00:20:59,360
driving around see you as water see you

504
00:21:04,090 --> 00:21:01,490
as food put the gun to their head and

505
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:04,100
say give it to me and give me the women

506
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:06,650
and give me whatever it's chaos and at a

507
00:21:10,150 --> 00:21:08,720
national level we know what that looks

508
00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:10,160
like because we live through and it's

509
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:12,110
like North Korea you don't want to go

510
00:21:15,820 --> 00:21:13,730
along with our plan boom here's

511
00:21:18,370 --> 00:21:15,830
bomb on you China you don't want to go

512
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:18,380
along with our plan here's a bomb on you

513
00:21:22,150 --> 00:21:20,240
isn't that that from a political

514
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:22,160
standpoint I'm not trying to be tricky

515
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:25,970
or trying to be super complex futuristic

516
00:21:30,340 --> 00:21:28,370
I'm just saying if we buy into what

517
00:21:33,790 --> 00:21:30,350
you're saying isn't that the inevitable

518
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:33,800
future it's not twenty people getting

519
00:21:38,020 --> 00:21:35,840
together and deciding they're gonna live

520
00:21:41,950 --> 00:21:38,030
a different way that isn't gonna be the

521
00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:41,960
future so I'm going to say this is my

522
00:21:45,910 --> 00:21:44,270
last political comment and I warned you

523
00:21:47,410 --> 00:21:45,920
I was not interested in talking about

524
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:47,420
politics because I am neither liberal

525
00:21:52,150 --> 00:21:50,000
nor conservative on both in different

526
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:52,160
ways any evolutionary anybody who gets

527
00:21:57,970 --> 00:21:55,280
evolution has the font has to embrace

528
00:22:00,160 --> 00:21:57,980
both a conserving element DNA is

529
00:22:02,170 --> 00:22:00,170
conservative if it's anything and a more

530
00:22:03,460 --> 00:22:02,180
expansive element so I'm neither of

531
00:22:06,010 --> 00:22:03,470
those so this is the last thing I'll say

532
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:06,020
on this you've watched too many movies

533
00:22:08,860 --> 00:22:07,520
and you haven't read enough history

534
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:08,870
because when you look at how

535
00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:11,360
civilizations have collapsed we have

536
00:22:14,290 --> 00:22:12,710
actually have there people have spent

537
00:22:17,020 --> 00:22:14,300
their entire lifetime Arnold Toynbee

538
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:17,030
Oswald Spengler gum Batista Vico these

539
00:22:20,740 --> 00:22:19,130
are people who have studied side by side

540
00:22:23,140 --> 00:22:20,750
by side by side by side all these

541
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:23,150
different civilizations and empires Sir

542
00:22:27,310 --> 00:22:25,760
John glove and how these contract and

543
00:22:30,670 --> 00:22:27,320
collapse and we know a lot about that

544
00:22:34,690 --> 00:22:30,680
this how that happens and Mad Max is

545
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:34,700
never the scenario you've watched too

546
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:42,010
what we know is that things will

547
00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:44,810
collapse differently in thousands of

548
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:46,400
different places in thousands of

549
00:22:50,790 --> 00:22:48,110
different ways it won't happen in any

550
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:50,800
one way and you and I can't even fathom

551
00:22:54,850 --> 00:22:53,090
some of the things that we just couldn't

552
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:54,860
imagine because it'll be new to this

553
00:22:59,230 --> 00:22:56,690
generation because previous generation

554
00:23:01,810 --> 00:22:59,240
didn't have atom bombs and machine guns

555
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:01,820
and all the that we've got so is

556
00:23:06,490 --> 00:23:03,410
some of what you're describing gonna

557
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:06,500
happen you bet absolutely but there will

558
00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:08,210
be communities that spawn differently I

559
00:23:12,610 --> 00:23:10,190
don't know about that I don't it's not

560
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:12,620
they don't care about it cuz I've got it

561
00:23:16,060 --> 00:23:14,570
I've got a daughter who's due to give

562
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:16,070
birth in May I've also got a

563
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:18,110
nine-year-old granddaughter I've got

564
00:23:21,730 --> 00:23:20,240
flesh in the game in terms of the future

565
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:21,740
but I don't believe that my children

566
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:23,840
will die much younger than they normally

567
00:23:27,230 --> 00:23:25,910
would have because I believe that within

568
00:23:30,140 --> 00:23:27,240
the next twenty years

569
00:23:32,990 --> 00:23:30,150
we're going to see major major famine

570
00:23:38,930 --> 00:23:33,000
probably wiping out 70 to 90% of the

571
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:38,940
human population so anything you want to

572
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:41,250
talk about in term is know I'm ready I

573
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:42,720
was just given it pause alright cuz cuz

574
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:44,880
religion and the science and the

575
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:47,610
spirituality I'm game for not interested

576
00:23:52,370 --> 00:23:49,970
in talking about the politics anymore

577
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:52,380
there you go as you see on the screen

578
00:23:57,230 --> 00:23:54,960
let's move on the science of global

579
00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:57,240
warming some people call it climate

580
00:24:04,820 --> 00:24:00,720
change so you've laid out your position

581
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:04,830
let me try as succinctly as possible to

582
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:08,400
lay out my position in three parts if

583
00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:12,050
you will so the first part would be that

584
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:15,030
the stakes as we were just talking about

585
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:17,610
and that's why I started with politics

586
00:24:23,180 --> 00:24:20,490
I am extremely apolitical like you are I

587
00:24:26,990 --> 00:24:23,190
never talk about left-right I think it's

588
00:24:29,570 --> 00:24:27,000
a completely ridiculous way to suggest

589
00:24:32,180 --> 00:24:29,580
that that paradigm has any reality at

590
00:24:34,790 --> 00:24:32,190
all on so many different levels but

591
00:24:38,210 --> 00:24:34,800
there is a reality to to that and we

592
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:38,220
just talked about it the reality is that

593
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:43,200
the stakes are very very high so we got

594
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:45,450
to make damn sure we get it right I mean

595
00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:49,610
we are facing species threatening

596
00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:52,710
environmental issues on a number of

597
00:25:00,110 --> 00:24:54,510
fronts we're in total agreement on that

598
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:00,120
and I understand that action along the

599
00:25:02,810 --> 00:25:01,650
lines is what you're talking about is

600
00:25:07,010 --> 00:25:02,820
one possibility

601
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:07,020
non action is an option but it's really

602
00:25:10,669 --> 00:25:08,850
not an option we are going to do

603
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:10,679
something we're going to do something in

604
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:12,690
the next five years ten years twenty

605
00:25:17,870 --> 00:25:14,880
years and the point is are we going to

606
00:25:19,580 --> 00:25:17,880
do the right thing or the wrong thing so

607
00:25:20,810 --> 00:25:19,590
when I get to the science thing the

608
00:25:22,540 --> 00:25:20,820
first thing I want to do is I want to

609
00:25:25,610 --> 00:25:22,550
say we've got a double check everything

610
00:25:26,210 --> 00:25:25,620
verify that it's true and along those

611
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:26,220
same lines

612
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:30,450
I'm extremely leery of science that

613
00:25:37,340 --> 00:25:33,090
comes from folks who've lied to me in

614
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:37,350
the past so I look at the 97% consensus

615
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:39,120
thing that was it's actually closer to

616
00:25:43,310 --> 00:25:40,770
99% now that was

617
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:43,320
actually seven years ago when the 97%

618
00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:45,360
thing if you look at how many papers

619
00:25:49,850 --> 00:25:47,430
actually written by climate scientists

620
00:25:53,570 --> 00:25:49,860
in the last six years it's about 99

621
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:53,580
percent okay well we could get into that

622
00:25:57,260 --> 00:25:55,440
I don't think it's gonna be fruitful to

623
00:25:59,660 --> 00:25:57,270
dig into that too far but we can't

624
00:26:02,390 --> 00:25:59,670
because I did a whole show with Rick on

625
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:02,400
that and Rick was so insistent on the

626
00:26:06,290 --> 00:26:04,710
consensus thing and I said Rick you're

627
00:26:07,850 --> 00:26:06,300
gonna look foolish here cuz we're you're

628
00:26:10,130 --> 00:26:07,860
gonna dig into it and you're gonna see

629
00:26:12,140 --> 00:26:10,140
that it's fake science and at the end of

630
00:26:14,060 --> 00:26:12,150
the day looked at Rick looked into it

631
00:26:16,220 --> 00:26:14,070
and he had to admit on this show I can

632
00:26:20,510 --> 00:26:16,230
play you the clip that it's fake science

633
00:26:23,660 --> 00:26:20,520
the 97% consensus the get the college

634
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:23,670
students get my own interns to go and do

635
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:26,370
the summations on this research was fake

636
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:28,410
science not to say that there aren't

637
00:26:32,810 --> 00:26:30,090
other stats out there that give

638
00:26:35,390 --> 00:26:32,820
different consensus marks but my point

639
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:35,400
again remember is that we got to be

640
00:26:41,150 --> 00:26:38,490
really careful because there's fake data

641
00:26:44,510 --> 00:26:41,160
out there fake science out there we have

642
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:44,520
Climategate where the whole the whole

643
00:26:50,570 --> 00:26:47,970
thing was how do we cook the books how

644
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:50,580
do we change the data Alex Alex we have

645
00:26:54,140 --> 00:26:52,410
a limited amount of time you're wasting

646
00:26:57,620 --> 00:26:54,150
time by talking about something I don't

647
00:27:00,590 --> 00:26:57,630
give a about I don't care about the

648
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:00,600
climate sciences hoax I don't care about

649
00:27:04,910 --> 00:27:03,570
where some scientists were I don't care

650
00:27:07,660 --> 00:27:04,920
about that I'm looking at a Paul

651
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:07,670
Beckwith and nicholas humphrey

652
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:09,690
meteorologist nick humphrey and paul

653
00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:12,090
back with those are the kind of people i

654
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:13,620
go to at peter Wadhams

655
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:15,840
in terms the arctic i pay attention to a

656
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:19,520
select understanding of the data that's

657
00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:21,600
incontrovertible that nobody is arguing

658
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:23,910
but nobody anywhere is arguing with and

659
00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:26,730
it's about abrupt climate change get

660
00:27:31,340 --> 00:27:29,760
that word abrupt climate change I can go

661
00:27:33,380 --> 00:27:31,350
into the details if you want me to but

662
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:33,390
I'm not interested in debating and

663
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:35,730
trying to defend the liberal consensus

664
00:27:40,610 --> 00:27:37,440
it ain't gonna happen so you're wasting

665
00:27:43,070 --> 00:27:40,620
my time well you know that's there's the

666
00:27:44,690 --> 00:27:43,080
Alex seriously but that's the vibe I got

667
00:27:46,460 --> 00:27:44,700
from you from the beginning Michael and

668
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:46,470
I get from so many people for some of

669
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:48,810
the difficult environmentalists they

670
00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:51,120
don't want to waste their time listening

671
00:27:54,139 --> 00:27:52,950
to the other side of it I love the way

672
00:27:57,139 --> 00:27:54,149
you say Israel

673
00:27:58,189 --> 00:27:57,149
in my in my world in what I pay

674
00:28:02,089 --> 00:27:58,199
attention to

675
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:02,099
there's not another side in terms always

676
00:28:07,759 --> 00:28:05,129
another side Michael okay Alex now in

677
00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:07,769
stocks okay you promised me that you

678
00:28:13,339 --> 00:28:09,929
would be late to me in things that I was

679
00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:13,349
interested in we're not doing that I am

680
00:28:18,229 --> 00:28:15,929
NOT going I know I'm not listen to me

681
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:18,239
said I'm not going to debate would

682
00:28:24,219 --> 00:28:20,399
relate to you in things that you're

683
00:28:26,899 --> 00:28:24,229
interested in I I never said that I've

684
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:26,909
represent Alex like television I would

685
00:28:31,939 --> 00:28:30,089
not discuss and was not interested and

686
00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:31,949
I'm not prepared to defend because I

687
00:28:36,139 --> 00:28:34,769
don't give a poop about it the kind of

688
00:28:38,239 --> 00:28:36,149
things that you have done with other

689
00:28:41,569 --> 00:28:38,249
guests such as what you just put on the

690
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:41,579
screen I'm not interested so if you want

691
00:28:45,709 --> 00:28:44,129
me to continue in this conversation you

692
00:28:47,989 --> 00:28:45,719
yourself said that if you're not pleased

693
00:28:50,389 --> 00:28:47,999
you can get off anytime if you want to

694
00:28:52,639 --> 00:28:50,399
do that I invite you to ask me about the

695
00:28:57,019 --> 00:28:52,649
religion I rap the spirituality about

696
00:28:59,749 --> 00:28:57,029
responding I will not try to defend the

697
00:29:05,109 --> 00:28:59,759
stuff you very capably can attack ain't

698
00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:05,119
interested in it ok I will move on but

699
00:29:13,719 --> 00:29:09,569
why do you think if I can capably attack

700
00:29:16,819 --> 00:29:13,729
or bring up the data points in your

701
00:29:19,939 --> 00:29:16,829
presentation on climate change your data

702
00:29:23,059 --> 00:29:19,949
point on sea level rise if I can bring

703
00:29:25,459 --> 00:29:23,069
up a noted climatologist who doesn't

704
00:29:27,439 --> 00:29:25,469
agree with you why is that not relevant

705
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:27,449
to this discussion because I could bring

706
00:29:33,439 --> 00:29:30,809
up ninety nine who do agree with me for

707
00:29:35,809 --> 00:29:33,449
example John Englander is a friend of

708
00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:35,819
mine he's a colleague but hold on it on

709
00:29:41,959 --> 00:29:38,369
Englander wrote is the former president

710
00:29:44,269 --> 00:29:41,969
of the Jacques Cousteau Society he will

711
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:44,279
also tell you as virtually anybody who

712
00:29:48,589 --> 00:29:46,799
deals with the oceans will that even if

713
00:29:50,989 --> 00:29:48,599
all human beings went extinct tonight

714
00:29:56,259 --> 00:29:50,999
the oceans would still rise considerably

715
00:30:01,069 --> 00:29:58,579
regardless of what we do even if we took

716
00:30:02,689 --> 00:30:01,079
all the political action but this is not

717
00:30:04,309 --> 00:30:02,699
I'm not going to debate the science with

718
00:30:06,790 --> 00:30:04,319
you because the evidence to my mind is

719
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:06,800
clear can you show one or two or

720
00:30:11,380 --> 00:30:09,310
three or four five respected

721
00:30:13,930 --> 00:30:11,390
climatologists who have a different

722
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:13,940
opinion of course that doesn't make any

723
00:30:18,010 --> 00:30:16,130
difference to me I go with where the

724
00:30:19,570 --> 00:30:18,020
majority and where the evidence what I

725
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:19,580
when I look at the others my wife is a

726
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:21,200
science writer she's written five

727
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:24,080
science books I go with where what we

728
00:30:27,370 --> 00:30:25,610
what global collective intelligence

729
00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:27,380
seems to be saying it never has to be a

730
00:30:31,060 --> 00:30:28,910
hundred percent so the fact that you got

731
00:30:33,070 --> 00:30:31,070
some dissenters and some convincing ones

732
00:30:34,930 --> 00:30:33,080
at least to you and to your followers

733
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:34,940
that's cruel okay whatever I'm

734
00:30:43,780 --> 00:30:38,240
interested in how we adapt to what is

735
00:30:45,940 --> 00:30:43,790
now in my estimation unavoidable but do

736
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:45,950
you realize how that plays Michael wins

737
00:30:49,450 --> 00:30:47,450
oh no because one of the things that's

738
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:49,460
unavoidable and says he and I are

739
00:30:56,830 --> 00:30:53,360
interested in the data that you have I'm

740
00:31:01,000 --> 00:30:56,840
not interested in discussing it I'm only

741
00:31:03,250 --> 00:31:01,010
interested in spewing my apocalyptic

742
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:03,260
future but that's okay you know what we

743
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:06,530
will move on I am happy to expedite the

744
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:08,810
conversation and move on to the

745
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:10,610
spiritual part so let's yeah but yeah

746
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:12,770
but your sarcasm that the the biting

747
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:14,810
nosov your tone is uncalled for

748
00:31:19,660 --> 00:31:17,570
I warned you in three emails that this

749
00:31:21,490 --> 00:31:19,670
is that I gave you the range of things

750
00:31:24,490 --> 00:31:21,500
that I would love to discuss with you

751
00:31:26,980 --> 00:31:24,500
and the things I was good and I gave you

752
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:26,990
a clear understanding that you know

753
00:31:31,930 --> 00:31:29,840
we're having a discussion a debate from

754
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:31,940
but we're not having a debate I'm not

755
00:31:36,490 --> 00:31:33,200
interested I don't debate

756
00:31:37,090 --> 00:31:36,500
I don't debate anybody a period end of

757
00:31:40,930 --> 00:31:37,100
story

758
00:31:42,610 --> 00:31:40,940
I discussed your let me finish yeah I

759
00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:42,620
discuss what I'm knowledgeable about

760
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:45,110
what I have passion and energy and

761
00:31:49,690 --> 00:31:47,450
commitment to and it doesn't happen to

762
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:49,700
be the politics and it doesn't happen to

763
00:31:53,980 --> 00:31:51,650
be defending the science so find other

764
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:53,990
guests to debate that it's great that

765
00:31:58,390 --> 00:31:56,480
you do that it's not where I go it's not

766
00:31:59,980 --> 00:31:58,400
what I'm interested in if you're

767
00:32:01,420 --> 00:31:59,990
interested in to learn how to stay

768
00:32:04,060 --> 00:32:01,430
inspired in my place

769
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:04,070
you get all over the place I mean I

770
00:32:07,390 --> 00:32:05,690
don't understand I don't understand

771
00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:07,400
people like you who come on and debate

772
00:32:12,730 --> 00:32:10,910
and then say not debate not debating so

773
00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:12,740
you can call it whatever you want

774
00:32:16,780 --> 00:32:15,230
dialoguing having a conversation I don't

775
00:32:19,030 --> 00:32:16,790
care what you have it what you call it

776
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:19,040
you're presenting your position I'm

777
00:32:22,690 --> 00:32:20,240
presenting my

778
00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:22,700
position I am no no that's not what

779
00:32:25,870 --> 00:32:24,110
that's not what I okay

780
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:25,880
I've interviewed over a hundred and

781
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:27,440
twenty people where I've been the

782
00:32:32,620 --> 00:32:30,170
podcast host and I interview people and

783
00:32:34,810 --> 00:32:32,630
in every single one of them my 2014

784
00:32:36,850 --> 00:32:34,820
series the future is calling us to

785
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:36,860
greatness when I interviewed 56 of the

786
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:38,690
world's top experts on climate and

787
00:32:42,610 --> 00:32:40,250
sustainability and a spattering of

788
00:32:44,710 --> 00:32:42,620
spiritual leaders and then the one I'm

789
00:32:46,330 --> 00:32:44,720
doing now post doomed conversations so

790
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:46,340
people can learn about that on post doom

791
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:50,000
comm every single one of those I listen

792
00:32:55,210 --> 00:32:52,970
I'm trying to get the my guest the

793
00:32:56,770 --> 00:32:55,220
person I'm talking to to share how they

794
00:32:57,549 --> 00:32:56,780
think how they feel well how they see

795
00:33:01,240 --> 00:32:57,559
the world

796
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:01,250
no you just not the ladies like to talk

797
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:03,290
to people who agree with you I get it I

798
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:06,410
get those kind of people all the time do

799
00:33:10,930 --> 00:33:09,050
you have any idea over 120 people all

800
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:10,940
these people don't agree with me they

801
00:33:16,450 --> 00:33:12,770
don't need to because it's not a debate

802
00:33:18,730 --> 00:33:16,460
I want them to share their thing and I

803
00:33:21,820 --> 00:33:18,740
engage with them but not from a debating

804
00:33:23,380 --> 00:33:21,830
stance what if you want to Judith curry

805
00:33:24,970 --> 00:33:23,390
why don't you get dr. Judith curry from

806
00:33:26,530 --> 00:33:24,980
Georgia Tech on yuusha one said that

807
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:26,540
would be an interesting conversation I'd

808
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:28,250
like to hear your dialogue was not a

809
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:32,000
post doom worldview I'm not interested I

810
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:34,730
interview people on post do Alex if you

811
00:33:37,540 --> 00:33:36,290
want to have a conversation with me

812
00:33:40,210 --> 00:33:37,550
let's have a conversation if you

813
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:40,220
continue in this debate format I'm gonna

814
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:43,250
hang up Michael you are free to click

815
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:45,850
the end button at any time no one is

816
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:48,080
chaining you to this discussion I know

817
00:33:51,460 --> 00:33:50,000
and then you'll trash me which is fine

818
00:33:53,980 --> 00:33:51,470
because I've seen you do that but I'm

819
00:33:55,540 --> 00:33:53,990
not interested well I wanted my position

820
00:33:58,390 --> 00:33:55,550
okay good I'm glad you said something

821
00:34:00,640 --> 00:33:58,400
back that up well let's talk about you

822
00:34:03,460 --> 00:34:00,650
when I trashed someone one of I trashed

823
00:34:05,260 --> 00:34:03,470
someone off the mic one of I hung up on

824
00:34:07,180 --> 00:34:05,270
a conversation with me and I have never

825
00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:07,190
seen that I have never heard that but

826
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:09,470
didn't you just say I apologize for

827
00:34:13,720 --> 00:34:11,510
giving that impression I've never seen

828
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:13,730
that I came I got that only because of

829
00:34:16,750 --> 00:34:15,290
the way that we've related in the emails

830
00:34:18,849 --> 00:34:16,760
but I've never seen or experienced you

831
00:34:20,619 --> 00:34:18,859
doing okay I've never I've never done

832
00:34:23,500 --> 00:34:20,629
that but that's okay so we'll talk about

833
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:23,510
spirituality of global and I'd love to

834
00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:26,000
do well we'll see and anything related

835
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:28,460
to post doom like how to stay inspired

836
00:34:31,820 --> 00:34:30,560
in contracting times because there are

837
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:31,830
certain things that are

838
00:34:34,730 --> 00:34:32,970
see this is the thing if you want to

839
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:34,740
talk about the science what I'm gonna

840
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:36,450
talk about is the science of overshoot

841
00:34:40,370 --> 00:34:38,970
the science of every society for which

842
00:34:42,650 --> 00:34:40,380
we have evidence that has gone into

843
00:34:45,169 --> 00:34:42,660
ecological overshoot contracts and

844
00:34:46,700 --> 00:34:45,179
collapses and it's inevitable so that

845
00:34:48,110 --> 00:34:46,710
I'm real knowledgeable about and I'm

846
00:34:50,150 --> 00:34:48,120
happy to talk about it but global

847
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:50,160
warming is one symptom of overshoot

848
00:34:53,810 --> 00:34:52,320
there's about 20 other symptoms of

849
00:34:55,070 --> 00:34:53,820
overshoot that we could talk about

850
00:34:57,110 --> 00:34:55,080
that's why I'm not interested in talking

851
00:34:59,090 --> 00:34:57,120
about two specified an area because

852
00:35:01,280 --> 00:34:59,100
let's talk about all the other aspects

853
00:35:02,570 --> 00:35:01,290
of overshoot William Catherine's book

854
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:02,580
overshoot is the most important book

855
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:04,290
I've ever read my life overshoot the

856
00:35:09,410 --> 00:35:06,240
ecological basis revolutionary change I

857
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:09,420
can't recommend it to Island so Michael

858
00:35:15,740 --> 00:35:12,290
you describe yourself as an eco

859
00:35:16,910 --> 00:35:15,750
theologian yep now reading your bio I

860
00:35:20,420 --> 00:35:16,920
know you have an extensive background

861
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:20,430
with Christianity born-again you went to

862
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:25,530
seminary ordained minister but maybe you

863
00:35:28,610 --> 00:35:26,400
want to tell us more about your

864
00:35:30,530 --> 00:35:28,620
spiritual background as a Christian you

865
00:35:32,930 --> 00:35:30,540
talk less about Jesus I've never heard

866
00:35:34,670 --> 00:35:32,940
you mentioned Jesus ever I mean where

867
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:34,680
does the Jesus think factor into your

868
00:35:40,990 --> 00:35:37,170
thing and what is your your how would

869
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:41,000
Christians understand your spirituality

870
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:44,730
well it's kind of hard to it's kind of

871
00:35:48,980 --> 00:35:46,290
hard to say what would Christians say

872
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:48,990
because there are you know thousands and

873
00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:50,610
thousands and thousands of Christian

874
00:35:54,740 --> 00:35:52,020
churches and they're all over the map

875
00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:54,750
some of them treat science and evidence

876
00:35:59,000 --> 00:35:56,430
a whole lot more authoritative than the

877
00:36:00,680 --> 00:35:59,010
Bible some treat mythic language the way

878
00:36:03,530 --> 00:36:00,690
I treat mythic language that is saying

879
00:36:05,660 --> 00:36:03,540
something symbolically true poetically

880
00:36:07,370 --> 00:36:05,670
metaphorically true about the nature of

881
00:36:08,930 --> 00:36:07,380
reality but they do it in poetry and

882
00:36:10,730 --> 00:36:08,940
they do it and they're not poetry they

883
00:36:12,980 --> 00:36:10,740
do it in symbol which is that symbolic

884
00:36:14,750 --> 00:36:12,990
language so I am from brain where do you

885
00:36:16,190 --> 00:36:14,760
come down on the historical Jesus is

886
00:36:17,930 --> 00:36:16,200
there historical Jesus Christ

887
00:36:19,130 --> 00:36:17,940
consciousness what is your relationship

888
00:36:21,740 --> 00:36:19,140
I don't I don't tend to use

889
00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:21,750
consciousness a whole lot because for me

890
00:36:28,580 --> 00:36:24,180
every life form has some form of

891
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:28,590
consciousness so I'm you know what I

892
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:32,490
will say is that the all of the world's

893
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:36,210
religions have been evolving the last

894
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:37,890
several thousand years including

895
00:36:43,010 --> 00:36:40,650
Christianity in a context where the

896
00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:43,020
culture already is out of right

897
00:36:45,050 --> 00:36:44,640
relationship to God out of right

898
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:45,060
relation

899
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:46,800
to reality and that is it's been

900
00:36:50,540 --> 00:36:48,960
human-centered and so these cultures

901
00:36:53,090 --> 00:36:50,550
these religions have helped people to

902
00:36:55,660 --> 00:36:53,100
sort of cope with that their coping

903
00:36:58,700 --> 00:36:55,670
mechanisms but in healthy for the first

904
00:37:02,170 --> 00:36:58,710
97% of human history religions were the

905
00:37:04,730 --> 00:37:02,180
control mechanism not the control coping

906
00:37:07,220 --> 00:37:04,740
method that the future was not

907
00:37:09,890 --> 00:37:07,230
compromised by the present and so I'm

908
00:37:12,740 --> 00:37:09,900
trying to because I am a Christian I I

909
00:37:15,470 --> 00:37:12,750
try to interpret the Christian story in

910
00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:15,480
terms of how this can be understood in

911
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:17,070
ways that are ecologically and

912
00:37:22,850 --> 00:37:19,560
scientifically factual not merely

913
00:37:24,260 --> 00:37:22,860
spiritually inspiring okay but I've

914
00:37:25,220 --> 00:37:24,270
asked you a couple times do you know for

915
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:25,230
example the Trinity

916
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:29,010
I don't experience historical Jesus do

917
00:37:33,020 --> 00:37:31,170
you believe who was Jesus as as

918
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:33,030
historical figure was he the Son of God

919
00:37:39,290 --> 00:37:36,450
was he the Redeemer it does does

920
00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:39,300
everyone who seek salvation have to go

921
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:41,700
through Jesus the these are fair

922
00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:44,310
questions I mean if you interpret for

923
00:37:48,890 --> 00:37:46,950
you where the the trappings you go by

924
00:37:52,490 --> 00:37:48,900
Reverend Michael doubt these are fair

925
00:37:53,780 --> 00:37:52,500
question to ask a Christian the totally

926
00:37:57,410 --> 00:37:53,790
fair questions to ask Christian I

927
00:38:00,590 --> 00:37:57,420
interpret all of those only in light of

928
00:38:02,690 --> 00:38:00,600
Christ not just the person Jesus but the

929
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:02,700
mythic Christ the stories built around

930
00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:05,850
him as a personification a deification

931
00:38:10,670 --> 00:38:08,250
of the future the first person in the

932
00:38:12,260 --> 00:38:10,680
Trinity is a deification of the past the

933
00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:12,270
second person of the Trinity the Savior

934
00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:13,710
the Messiah all that it's all about the

935
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:15,960
future and the third person has the Holy

936
00:38:19,310 --> 00:38:17,850
Spirit that spirit of the Spirit of God

937
00:38:21,650 --> 00:38:19,320
the hebrews you didn't need to believe

938
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,660
in the spirit it the wind and the breath

939
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:23,760
personified deified the only place you

940
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:25,050
can experience wind and breath is in the

941
00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:27,690
present so yes the only way that humans

942
00:38:32,060 --> 00:38:29,910
can save ourselves once we exited out of

943
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:32,070
the garden as once we left the way we

944
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:34,170
were living for the first 97% of human

945
00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:36,570
history went on a human centered path we

946
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:38,310
can't save ourselves we were on that

947
00:38:42,470 --> 00:38:40,110
path seven thousand six thousand

948
00:38:45,470 --> 00:38:42,480
whatever years ago that led right to

949
00:38:47,540 --> 00:38:45,480
here which is hell this this world held

950
00:38:49,970 --> 00:38:47,550
and only the future can save us by

951
00:38:51,830 --> 00:38:49,980
making the future our Lord is the only

952
00:38:53,870 --> 00:38:51,840
hope of redemption and that's true even

953
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:53,880
if we go extinct that is the only hope

954
00:38:57,740 --> 00:38:55,170
of us would be

955
00:39:00,950 --> 00:38:57,750
in the body of life so yes for me Christ

956
00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:00,960
is the future personify the voice in the

957
00:39:06,170 --> 00:39:03,089
heart of the future the future is my

958
00:39:09,140 --> 00:39:06,180
lord okay so six or seven thousand years

959
00:39:14,109 --> 00:39:09,150
ago there was a garden and no no no no

960
00:39:17,900 --> 00:39:14,119
no no no Alex Alex metaphor the garden

961
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:17,910
symbolizes humanity living in a mutually

962
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:19,920
enhancing relationship with the rest of

963
00:39:23,329 --> 00:39:21,930
the body of life with with reality what

964
00:39:26,660 --> 00:39:23,339
was the six or seven thousand years

965
00:39:29,450 --> 00:39:26,670
reference humans centeredness epicenter

966
00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:29,460
what Daniel Quinn calls totalitarian

967
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:31,980
agriculture once we start creating forms

968
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:34,260
of Agriculture that it's all about us

969
00:39:38,930 --> 00:39:36,450
then we get really really good at having

970
00:39:40,910 --> 00:39:38,940
things work out best for us over time

971
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:40,920
because our brains and our hands are

972
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:42,480
tool making ability in our symbolic

973
00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:44,970
brains and then once you start mining

974
00:39:50,329 --> 00:39:47,790
metals you get into this arms race so it

975
00:39:52,250 --> 00:39:50,339
seems to me pretty inevitable from about

976
00:39:54,980 --> 00:39:52,260
six seven maybe eight thousand years ago

977
00:39:57,859 --> 00:39:54,990
once we see city-based human centered

978
00:39:59,720 --> 00:39:57,869
cultures that always overshoot the

979
00:40:01,670 --> 00:39:59,730
carrying capacity that is they they use

980
00:40:04,130 --> 00:40:01,680
more resources and create more waste so

981
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:04,140
they end up dying over time and so that

982
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:06,569
pattern the rise and fall booms and

983
00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:08,970
busts of civilization is inevitable

984
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:12,510
until or unless we make the future our

985
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:14,640
primary guiding principle that is the

986
00:40:19,309 --> 00:40:16,170
seventh generation that whole idea of

987
00:40:21,980 --> 00:40:19,319
acting with the with the future as the

988
00:40:23,660 --> 00:40:21,990
judge in the present that's not just a

989
00:40:25,549 --> 00:40:23,670
good idea to do otherwise as evil so I

990
00:40:27,140 --> 00:40:25,559
interpret the Christian story and all

991
00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:27,150
the Christic Christian doctrinal

992
00:40:31,730 --> 00:40:29,609
language other traditions too from this

993
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:31,740
grounded ecological evolutionary

994
00:40:37,089 --> 00:40:34,410
worldview so the six or seven thousand

995
00:40:40,099 --> 00:40:37,099
years a lot of people tied that to

996
00:40:43,220 --> 00:40:40,109
biblical people people who are tied to

997
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,230
the Bible as Holy Scripture tie that

998
00:40:47,450 --> 00:40:45,599
back to the garden kind of thing but you

999
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:47,460
are making any connection you're just

1000
00:40:52,730 --> 00:40:49,530
saying it just so happens that the six

1001
00:40:55,099 --> 00:40:52,740
or seven thousand years that Christians

1002
00:40:57,260 --> 00:40:55,109
like to tie back to the origin story it

1003
00:40:59,599 --> 00:40:57,270
just it's just coincidence that that

1004
00:41:02,950 --> 00:40:59,609
ties to this Eric well really yeah I

1005
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:02,960
mean when you start seeing city-based

1006
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:05,040
civilizations as like six or seven

1007
00:41:09,010 --> 00:41:07,170
thousand years ago but your inaction to

1008
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:09,020
the Bible that's my question there's no

1009
00:41:14,810 --> 00:41:12,000
no I did the the Bible is mythic

1010
00:41:17,090 --> 00:41:14,820
literature deeply inspiring did Jesus

1011
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:17,100
walk on the earth and was he the son of

1012
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:21,570
God I'm the idea you have no

1013
00:41:25,790 --> 00:41:23,760
faces walked on the earth probably yes

1014
00:41:28,460 --> 00:41:25,800
could it be I mean there's some people

1015
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,470
some scholars actually that have said

1016
00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:30,240
that Jesus and Buddha are Athlete

1017
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:32,250
actually mythic figures and rather than

1018
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:34,530
actual flesh-and-blood I suspect they

1019
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:36,330
were living beings I suspect Jesus of

1020
00:41:41,180 --> 00:41:38,370
Nazareth well as a human being who lived

1021
00:41:42,530 --> 00:41:41,190
who lived an exemplary like relationship

1022
00:41:43,700 --> 00:41:42,540
and right relationship reality and

1023
00:41:46,370 --> 00:41:43,710
everybody around him was like do you

1024
00:41:49,220 --> 00:41:46,380
know I got you know so he the only Son

1025
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:49,230
of God depends on if you mean that

1026
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:50,610
literally or whether you mean that

1027
00:41:54,310 --> 00:41:52,410
metaphorically if you mean that

1028
00:41:56,810 --> 00:41:54,320
literally no of course not

1029
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:56,820
why of course not because a lot of

1030
00:42:02,390 --> 00:41:59,520
Christians because all species are

1031
00:42:04,970 --> 00:42:02,400
children of God all species are sons and

1032
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:04,980
daughters of God all humans are sons and

1033
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:06,570
daughters of God so any special

1034
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:09,450
relationship between Jesus and God any

1035
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:12,000
special different relationship as I say

1036
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:13,770
is there any special relationship

1037
00:42:19,730 --> 00:42:16,530
between the future and the past yes

1038
00:42:22,370 --> 00:42:19,740
there's a relationship there one in the

1039
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,380
same you can't honor the future and be a

1040
00:42:27,980 --> 00:42:24,720
blessing to the future by dishonouring

1041
00:42:31,460 --> 00:42:27,990
the past so of course I I'm not I'm not

1042
00:42:32,810 --> 00:42:31,470
going to try to discuss a fundamentalist

1043
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:32,820
theology with you because I'm not

1044
00:42:37,540 --> 00:42:34,530
interested it's not where I'm at I speak

1045
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:37,550
in moderate to liberal Christian

1046
00:42:43,790 --> 00:42:41,610
Buddhist Unitarian a unity church

1047
00:42:46,190 --> 00:42:43,800
religious science I speak in every place

1048
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:46,200
except biblical fundamentalist search

1049
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:47,730
settings because it takes a courageous

1050
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:50,210
evangelical to invite me in it takes a

1051
00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:52,890
evangelical pastor who wants to move

1052
00:42:57,020 --> 00:42:54,480
their congregation in accepting

1053
00:42:59,090 --> 00:42:57,030
evolution and ecology as divinely

1054
00:43:00,590 --> 00:42:59,100
revelatory and that's few and far

1055
00:43:03,050 --> 00:43:00,600
between it only happens every few years

1056
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:03,060
so of the 3,000 or close to 3,000

1057
00:43:09,230 --> 00:43:05,610
churches are organizations where I've

1058
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:09,240
spoken in the last 18 years I think six

1059
00:43:13,310 --> 00:43:10,890
of them have been fundamentalist or

1060
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:13,320
evangelical it's pretty where yeah I

1061
00:43:16,970 --> 00:43:15,210
don't identify with those labels cuz I'm

1062
00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:16,980
not a Christian I'm not religious but

1063
00:43:21,140 --> 00:43:18,900
what about your transformation do you

1064
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:21,150
were born again right at some point you

1065
00:43:25,890 --> 00:43:21,760
were

1066
00:43:28,620 --> 00:43:25,900
of what you would tag I was raised

1067
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:28,630
Catholic I went through Catholic school

1068
00:43:34,140 --> 00:43:31,570
for most Catholics evolution isn't a big

1069
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:34,150
deal they just sort of accept it as the

1070
00:43:38,070 --> 00:43:35,920
current Pope does I had a born-again

1071
00:43:40,170 --> 00:43:38,080
experience and by born-again what I mean

1072
00:43:42,660 --> 00:43:40,180
is I had a methanoic conversion

1073
00:43:45,630 --> 00:43:42,670
experience in my late teenage years in

1074
00:43:47,010 --> 00:43:45,640
Berlin Germany and that was that was

1075
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:47,020
because I was struggling with drug

1076
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:51,850
alcohol and sex addiction and I realized

1077
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:54,850
that I was taking myself to hell

1078
00:44:00,180 --> 00:43:57,520
basically and so I had this profound

1079
00:44:02,730 --> 00:44:00,190
mountaintop experience in outside Berlin

1080
00:44:04,020 --> 00:44:02,740
outside of Frankfurt Germany came off

1081
00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:04,030
the mountain literally in the next

1082
00:44:07,260 --> 00:44:05,230
Sunday I went to church and they were

1083
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:07,270
showing this Billy Graham film at this

1084
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:09,310
Pentecostal Assemblies of God Church and

1085
00:44:13,290 --> 00:44:10,960
at the end of the film which was one of

1086
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:13,300
these grab your heart films the minister

1087
00:44:16,650 --> 00:44:14,650
asked is there anybody want to come down

1088
00:44:18,210 --> 00:44:16,660
to the altar and you know accept Jesus

1089
00:44:20,849 --> 00:44:18,220
as your personal Lord and Savior man I'm

1090
00:44:22,770 --> 00:44:20,859
practically running down the altar and I

1091
00:44:26,690 --> 00:44:22,780
had a conversion experience meaning I

1092
00:44:30,210 --> 00:44:26,700
turned my life over to the care of

1093
00:44:33,020 --> 00:44:30,220
reality God the universe and for me

1094
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:33,030
Christ was always the heart and soul of

1095
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:36,850
reality and so I then read the Bible

1096
00:44:40,230 --> 00:44:38,290
straight through twice I went to an

1097
00:44:42,660 --> 00:44:40,240
Assemblies of God college and in a

1098
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:42,670
pastoring three United Church of Christ

1099
00:44:45,930 --> 00:44:44,050
churches although one of them the first

1100
00:44:48,420 --> 00:44:45,940
one was also a Baptist Church I went to

1101
00:44:49,950 --> 00:44:48,430
a Baptist Seminary and then pastor three

1102
00:44:51,450 --> 00:44:49,960
churches and then I'm done environmental

1103
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:51,460
sustainability and community organizing

1104
00:44:54,450 --> 00:44:52,930
work since then and then the last

1105
00:44:58,530 --> 00:44:54,460
eighteen years traveling around with my

1106
00:45:01,490 --> 00:44:58,540
wife the reason I want to go through

1107
00:45:04,170 --> 00:45:01,500
your personal kind of Christian

1108
00:45:05,340 --> 00:45:04,180
orientation spiritual orientation is

1109
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:05,350
because I think it's interesting I think

1110
00:45:09,690 --> 00:45:06,970
it's interesting to people who identify

1111
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:09,700
as Christian again because I'm not I

1112
00:45:13,859 --> 00:45:11,530
don't think it makes a lot of sense I

1113
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:13,869
think there's a lot of cultish aspects

1114
00:45:17,730 --> 00:45:16,090
to the Christian religion I was brought

1115
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:17,740
up Greek Orthodox

1116
00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:19,570
in the Greek Orthodox tradition and

1117
00:45:25,410 --> 00:45:22,390
thinking back and the process of really

1118
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:25,420
kind of unraveling how that works and

1119
00:45:32,190 --> 00:45:28,690
the symbolism and the icon worshipping

1120
00:45:34,030 --> 00:45:32,200
and you know go up and kiss the priests

1121
00:45:35,860 --> 00:45:34,040
hand while he puts a piece of

1122
00:45:39,850 --> 00:45:35,870
right in your in your thing I think is

1123
00:45:41,770 --> 00:45:39,860
incredibly just destructive or

1124
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:41,780
potentially destructive on so many

1125
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:43,850
levels and I just wanted people

1126
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:45,770
understand because you do kind of front

1127
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:46,970
it out there pretty much you know you

1128
00:45:50,650 --> 00:45:48,890
got the green shirt on and the collar

1129
00:45:52,210 --> 00:45:50,660
and you know that there's there's a

1130
00:45:53,740 --> 00:45:52,220
history to that I mean I'm committed to

1131
00:45:55,900 --> 00:45:53,750
the greening of religion that is

1132
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:55,910
religion coming home to reality and

1133
00:46:00,010 --> 00:45:57,280
again I use the word God in reality

1134
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:00,020
interchangeably God is a mythic name of

1135
00:46:05,530 --> 00:46:03,440
reality and and and reality could say is

1136
00:46:07,570 --> 00:46:05,540
a secular name for God the any God that

1137
00:46:09,820 --> 00:46:07,580
isn't that doesn't include the voice of

1138
00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:09,830
what reality is telling us is it is

1139
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:10,400
impotent

1140
00:46:17,620 --> 00:46:14,210
the problem is every religion that has

1141
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:17,630
book based that is grounded in written

1142
00:46:23,140 --> 00:46:21,050
human language becomes that language

1143
00:46:25,660 --> 00:46:23,150
often becomes idolatrous that is I call

1144
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:25,670
it idolatry of the written word idolatry

1145
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:27,680
of the otherworldly an idolatry of

1146
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:30,170
beliefs and those are almost inevitable

1147
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:32,240
in written cultures once you have

1148
00:46:36,460 --> 00:46:34,490
literacy that escapes the priesthood

1149
00:46:39,490 --> 00:46:36,470
so it then becomes part of the common

1150
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:39,500
common people and literacy becomes sort

1151
00:46:44,260 --> 00:46:41,810
of the norm and culture religions that

1152
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:44,270
emerge and and flower in those kinds of

1153
00:46:48,490 --> 00:46:46,240
cultures almost always fall victim to

1154
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:48,500
idolatry the written word because then

1155
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:50,450
what happens is see in oral cultures

1156
00:46:53,770 --> 00:46:52,490
when you just got oral stories about the

1157
00:46:56,020 --> 00:46:53,780
nature of what's real and what's

1158
00:46:59,080 --> 00:46:56,030
important those stories can evolve and

1159
00:47:01,930 --> 00:46:59,090
shift and change over time but once you

1160
00:47:04,660 --> 00:47:01,940
write them down then it becomes the

1161
00:47:05,770 --> 00:47:04,670
authoritative Word of God and you can't

1162
00:47:08,290 --> 00:47:05,780
the only thing can change is the

1163
00:47:10,420 --> 00:47:08,300
interpretations and so then as reality

1164
00:47:12,340 --> 00:47:10,430
shifts as the environment and climate

1165
00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:12,350
and culture and civilizations and all

1166
00:47:15,820 --> 00:47:14,510
that sub ship you've got these cultures

1167
00:47:18,190 --> 00:47:15,830
that are going back to these ancient

1168
00:47:20,350 --> 00:47:18,200
texts as if reality cares more about

1169
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:20,360
picking up sticks on the Sabbath then

1170
00:47:25,140 --> 00:47:21,890
reality cares about things that are

1171
00:47:28,330 --> 00:47:25,150
current today like global warming so I

1172
00:47:31,630 --> 00:47:28,340
don't see any hope of any religions of

1173
00:47:33,820 --> 00:47:31,640
the book surviving this this what you

1174
00:47:36,250 --> 00:47:33,830
call apocalypse I don't this bottleneck

1175
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:36,260
this overshoot correction where we come

1176
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:38,810
back into the carrying capacity of the

1177
00:47:42,070 --> 00:47:40,250
living world I don't see any of the

1178
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:42,080
religions of the book surviving that in

1179
00:47:47,110 --> 00:47:44,930
their current form they can survive once

1180
00:47:47,579 --> 00:47:47,120
ecology once again becomes the heart of

1181
00:47:49,709 --> 00:47:47,589
their

1182
00:47:52,829 --> 00:47:49,719
that's why I'm espousing that and that's

1183
00:47:54,089 --> 00:47:52,839
why I've got that green color yeah say

1184
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:54,099
Mikey you're still right in the middle

1185
00:47:57,150 --> 00:47:55,359
of it you're still calling yourself a

1186
00:47:58,739 --> 00:47:57,160
Christian you're still tapping and I'm

1187
00:48:01,130 --> 00:47:58,749
an evolutionary Christian I'm a

1188
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:01,140
Christian now you're a Christian you

1189
00:48:12,689 --> 00:48:09,729
haven't broken free from Alex Naturalist

1190
00:48:15,479 --> 00:48:12,699
I have no supernatural beliefs or

1191
00:48:15,989 --> 00:48:15,489
otherworldly beliefs at all zip nada not

1192
00:48:18,029 --> 00:48:15,999
a one

1193
00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:18,039
I'm a Christian naturalist so if you are

1194
00:48:21,809 --> 00:48:20,559
in terms of no supernatural beliefs what

1195
00:48:23,339 --> 00:48:21,819
did talk about your relationship with

1196
00:48:26,370 --> 00:48:23,349
Jesus wasn't that a supernatural

1197
00:48:28,319 --> 00:48:26,380
relationship is the future supernatural

1198
00:48:30,449 --> 00:48:28,329
I said I have a personal relationship

1199
00:48:32,549 --> 00:48:30,459
through your whole thing with Jesus

1200
00:48:33,689 --> 00:48:32,559
isn't that supernatural oh I had

1201
00:48:35,579 --> 00:48:33,699
supernatural beliefs back then

1202
00:48:41,069 --> 00:48:35,589
absolutely but you don't have that so

1203
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:41,079
then how do you 1988 1988 I read Thomas

1204
00:48:46,319 --> 00:48:43,930
berry a Catholic priest not a priest but

1205
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:46,329
Catholic monk and a called himself a

1206
00:48:50,039 --> 00:48:48,729
geol Oh Jean he was one of the most

1207
00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:50,049
significant ecological and evolutionary

1208
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:52,420
thinkers in the 20th century and he and

1209
00:48:56,519 --> 00:48:54,880
Brian swim wrote a number of books that

1210
00:48:58,679 --> 00:48:56,529
the universe story was the one that

1211
00:49:01,949 --> 00:48:58,689
co-authored but I when I encountered

1212
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:01,959
Thomas Berry's work in 1988 I as well as

1213
00:49:06,539 --> 00:49:03,910
Jean Marshall and a few others I my

1214
00:49:09,870 --> 00:49:06,549
supernaturalism just fell away because a

1215
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:09,880
naturalistic and reinterpretation of all

1216
00:49:13,709 --> 00:49:11,890
the Christian not just Christian all the

1217
00:49:15,569 --> 00:49:13,719
myths and religions just makes so much

1218
00:49:17,429 --> 00:49:15,579
more sense so here's my Creed in a

1219
00:49:19,559 --> 00:49:17,439
nutshell I think I you may not watch

1220
00:49:21,929 --> 00:49:19,569
another thing but my my faith statement

1221
00:49:24,410 --> 00:49:21,939
is it were in a nutshell the shortest

1222
00:49:27,989 --> 00:49:24,420
possible form that I can put it is this

1223
00:49:29,969 --> 00:49:27,999
reality is my god that is reality is my

1224
00:49:32,039 --> 00:49:29,979
ultimate commitment reality's my god

1225
00:49:34,169 --> 00:49:32,049
evidence is my scripture that is

1226
00:49:36,449 --> 00:49:34,179
evidences authoritative in terms of what

1227
00:49:39,449 --> 00:49:36,459
realities sorry so reality is my god

1228
00:49:40,859 --> 00:49:39,459
evidence is my scripture big history are

1229
00:49:42,059 --> 00:49:40,869
the epic of evolution that is the

1230
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:42,069
history of everyone and everything that

1231
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:44,160
science gives us is my creation story

1232
00:49:48,959 --> 00:49:47,920
ecology is my theology integrity and

1233
00:49:50,549 --> 00:49:48,969
what I mean by integrity are the

1234
00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:50,559
practices and exercises that help me

1235
00:49:54,179 --> 00:49:52,209
live in right relationship to reality so

1236
00:49:57,179 --> 00:49:54,189
integrity is my spirituality so reality

1237
00:49:59,059 --> 00:49:57,189
is my god evidence is my scripture the

1238
00:50:01,320 --> 00:49:59,069
epic of evolution is my creation story

1239
00:50:03,620 --> 00:50:01,330
ecology is my theology

1240
00:50:06,090 --> 00:50:03,630
integrity is my spiritual path and

1241
00:50:09,210 --> 00:50:06,100
fostering accountability to the future

1242
00:50:10,860 --> 00:50:09,220
is my mission and that's my faith

1243
00:50:12,330 --> 00:50:10,870
statement that's the kind of Christian I

1244
00:50:15,330 --> 00:50:12,340
am not the kind of Christian you're

1245
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:15,340
imagining well it doesn't sound like

1246
00:50:18,540 --> 00:50:16,810
you're Christian at all if you don't

1247
00:50:20,850 --> 00:50:18,550
believe in Christ I don't need to

1248
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:20,860
believe we can know now that's the thing

1249
00:50:24,990 --> 00:50:23,410
it's not about beliefs were beyond so

1250
00:50:26,580 --> 00:50:25,000
remember the three idolatries written

1251
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:26,590
word adultery the otherworldly and

1252
00:50:31,170 --> 00:50:29,050
idolatry beliefs idolatry of beliefs is

1253
00:50:34,050 --> 00:50:31,180
where we think what religion is about is

1254
00:50:36,030 --> 00:50:34,060
beliefs religion was never about beliefs

1255
00:50:38,850 --> 00:50:36,040
in sustainable cultures and religion was

1256
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:38,860
always about beliefs in unsustainable

1257
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:41,770
cultures we now don't need to believe we

1258
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:44,170
can experience and know that if we don't

1259
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:47,170
honor the future first as lord we will

1260
00:50:52,410 --> 00:50:49,810
go extinct if we don't honor the wisdom

1261
00:50:53,940 --> 00:50:52,420
of the past history and evolution then

1262
00:50:55,500 --> 00:50:53,950
we're gonna not have the guidance in the

1263
00:50:56,010 --> 00:50:55,510
present for how to be a blessing to the

1264
00:50:58,410 --> 00:50:56,020
future

1265
00:51:00,180 --> 00:50:58,420
so I'm not gonna debate whether I'm a

1266
00:51:02,010 --> 00:51:00,190
Christian or not I'm this kind of

1267
00:51:04,020 --> 00:51:02,020
Christian that Christians all over the

1268
00:51:05,790 --> 00:51:04,030
board buddy you're all over the board

1269
00:51:08,730 --> 00:51:05,800
you're talking about a spiritual

1270
00:51:10,650 --> 00:51:08,740
awakening a born-again experience I held

1271
00:51:13,050 --> 00:51:10,660
your feet to the fire on whether Jesus

1272
00:51:14,250 --> 00:51:13,060
existed you said yes and then you wind

1273
00:51:16,020 --> 00:51:14,260
up saying whether I don't believe in

1274
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:16,030
anything supernatural you don't know

1275
00:51:20,580 --> 00:51:18,250
okay so here's let me try to let me try

1276
00:51:25,350 --> 00:51:20,590
to paint this out I had a born-again

1277
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:25,360
experience in 1981 I was disciple

1278
00:51:30,330 --> 00:51:27,610
supernatural I was that very

1279
00:51:31,980 --> 00:51:30,340
supernatural accept it as supernatural

1280
00:51:33,810 --> 00:51:31,990
today Michel what difference does it

1281
00:51:35,940 --> 00:51:33,820
make if you had some experience in the

1282
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:35,950
past that you know love simply trying to

1283
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:38,770
Alex can you allow me to just share my

1284
00:51:43,290 --> 00:51:39,370
story

1285
00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:43,300
you've given given you pleasure but

1286
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:45,040
you're tripping it as if there's

1287
00:51:52,170 --> 00:51:48,610
something wrong I had a change of how I

1288
00:51:53,820 --> 00:51:52,180
interpret going from you front yourself

1289
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:53,830
as a Christian and wearing the collar

1290
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:55,690
and doing all that stuff you're not a

1291
00:51:59,490 --> 00:51:57,490
Christian you don't believe in Jesus you

1292
00:52:01,770 --> 00:51:59,500
don't believe then and so do you realize

1293
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:01,780
that there are thousands and probably

1294
00:52:06,570 --> 00:52:03,970
tens of thousands of liberal Christian

1295
00:52:08,310 --> 00:52:06,580
churches that don't believe anything

1296
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:08,320
like you are characterizing there's

1297
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:10,090
nothing sillier than someone who's not a

1298
00:52:13,490 --> 00:52:12,610
Christian attacking someone else for not

1299
00:52:14,990 --> 00:52:13,500
being a true

1300
00:52:16,250 --> 00:52:15,000
Christian because they think what

1301
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:16,260
Christians are our biblical

1302
00:52:22,460 --> 00:52:18,570
fundamentalists if you got the wrong guy

1303
00:52:24,260 --> 00:52:22,470
dude trust me I speak I spoken is close

1304
00:52:26,030 --> 00:52:24,270
to three thousand churches maybe six of

1305
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:26,040
them are fundamentalist evangelical all

1306
00:52:32,330 --> 00:52:29,130
the rest of them don't believe it's not

1307
00:52:35,330 --> 00:52:32,340
about belief ISM liberal Christians are

1308
00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:35,340
not the same as fundamentalist

1309
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:38,960
Christians and I am a Protestant

1310
00:52:42,740 --> 00:52:41,280
ecological Christian I'm an eco Chris

1311
00:52:45,170 --> 00:52:42,750
I'm a Christian naturals that's how I

1312
00:52:47,690 --> 00:52:45,180
sell myself that's on my websites you've

1313
00:52:51,350 --> 00:52:47,700
got dozens of sermons on YouTube I'm

1314
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:51,360
consistent everywhere okay I'll accept

1315
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:53,130
that that's how you sell yourself that's

1316
00:52:56,990 --> 00:52:54,690
how you present yourself to use your

1317
00:52:58,850 --> 00:52:57,000
words so the two things that get me

1318
00:53:02,210 --> 00:52:58,860
about the death cult environmentalist

1319
00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:02,220
position my words not yours is one and I

1320
00:53:05,540 --> 00:53:03,660
hear it from a bunch of different people

1321
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:05,550
who kind of get this kind of cultish

1322
00:53:13,130 --> 00:53:09,330
vibe is that we are in a special time

1323
00:53:15,580 --> 00:53:13,140
and God needs our help right now to save

1324
00:53:18,290 --> 00:53:15,590
mother earth or to do whatever this

1325
00:53:20,540 --> 00:53:18,300
reasoning God needs our help not all the

1326
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:20,550
time but right now has been you it's at

1327
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:22,770
the heart of every war we've ever had

1328
00:53:30,140 --> 00:53:27,330
every every genocide that we've ever had

1329
00:53:32,780 --> 00:53:30,150
why would we listen to it now haven't we

1330
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:32,790
learned that if there's any reality to

1331
00:53:38,540 --> 00:53:35,490
spirituality to a large yourself to a

1332
00:53:41,660 --> 00:53:38,550
larger connection then we're probably

1333
00:53:44,690 --> 00:53:41,670
not in a special time it God probably

1334
00:53:47,090 --> 00:53:44,700
doesn't need our help right now well I

1335
00:53:50,750 --> 00:53:47,100
certainly agree with everything you just

1336
00:53:54,530 --> 00:53:50,760
said so I don't have any what you are

1337
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:54,540
identifying as the sounds like Christian

1338
00:53:59,240 --> 00:53:56,640
but death cults what you call that God's

1339
00:54:02,150 --> 00:53:59,250
needs our help to save her mother earth

1340
00:54:04,310 --> 00:54:02,160
or his mother or whatever no I don't

1341
00:54:06,620 --> 00:54:04,320
even see God as human centered we're not

1342
00:54:08,570 --> 00:54:06,630
gods favored species we're not realities

1343
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:08,580
favorite species in fact we're gonna go

1344
00:54:12,410 --> 00:54:10,290
extinct on a hundred year timeline we've

1345
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:12,420
got at most another week that is another

1346
00:54:18,980 --> 00:54:17,130
twelve I mean four million years before

1347
00:54:20,690 --> 00:54:18,990
a supervolcano or an asteroid takes us

1348
00:54:22,340 --> 00:54:20,700
out and then earth will continue to spin

1349
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:22,350
the mean will continue to do its thing

1350
00:54:25,250 --> 00:54:23,970
the Galaxy will Kennedy this thing

1351
00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:25,260
species will come species will go

1352
00:54:29,540 --> 00:54:27,000
glaciers will contemplations will go

1353
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:29,550
long after humans have gone so we're not

1354
00:54:35,630 --> 00:54:31,890
God's favorite species so let's just

1355
00:54:39,260 --> 00:54:35,640
start there well the other thing that I

1356
00:54:42,740 --> 00:54:39,270
guess always strikes me peeves me about

1357
00:54:46,460 --> 00:54:42,750
this certain brand of cultish

1358
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:46,470
environmentalism is the kind of play

1359
00:54:53,630 --> 00:54:50,370
between the acceptance that spirituality

1360
00:54:57,050 --> 00:54:53,640
is the acceptance oneness of all of us

1361
00:54:59,270 --> 00:54:57,060
being together under one God which is

1362
00:55:02,150 --> 00:54:59,280
actually my personal belief I believe

1363
00:55:04,820 --> 00:55:02,160
you know it's the ocean wave drop thing

1364
00:55:07,340 --> 00:55:04,830
you know there's belgin that we're all

1365
00:55:10,310 --> 00:55:07,350
we're all just the ocean and then we

1366
00:55:12,410 --> 00:55:10,320
have this individualization that arises

1367
00:55:14,540 --> 00:55:12,420
in our head that we are somehow separate

1368
00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:14,550
and different I'm all about that but

1369
00:55:18,910 --> 00:55:16,260
what seems to be in conflict with that

1370
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:18,920
is this kind of get er done

1371
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:20,640
environmentalism and I know you're

1372
00:55:24,380 --> 00:55:22,290
backpedaling from that all over the

1373
00:55:26,770 --> 00:55:24,390
place but everyone else I've ever talked

1374
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:26,780
to that has this environmental vibe

1375
00:55:32,570 --> 00:55:29,490
including our buddy buddy Rick Archer it

1376
00:55:35,090 --> 00:55:32,580
always is accompanied by 10 things that

1377
00:55:37,790 --> 00:55:35,100
we need to do right now and we need to

1378
00:55:39,530 --> 00:55:37,800
do the Paris Accords and damn those

1379
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:39,540
politicians who won't do it and if we

1380
00:55:43,700 --> 00:55:41,850
could only cut down on this and do that

1381
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:43,710
and it's a kind of a get er done

1382
00:55:48,860 --> 00:55:46,170
attitude that seems to be out of sync a

1383
00:55:50,810 --> 00:55:48,870
little bit with this deeper spirituality

1384
00:55:52,790 --> 00:55:50,820
now maybe that's not you I don't really

1385
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:52,800
hear you you're kind of backing off the

1386
00:55:58,100 --> 00:55:55,170
get her done saying hey no no no no okay

1387
00:56:00,170 --> 00:55:58,110
so backing off would probably be

1388
00:56:04,100 --> 00:56:00,180
characteristically true because when I

1389
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:04,110
woke to the urgency of climate and the

1390
00:56:07,730 --> 00:56:05,970
fact and I started studying the rise and

1391
00:56:10,370 --> 00:56:07,740
fall of civilizations when that became

1392
00:56:12,050 --> 00:56:10,380
my Center study spending 20 30 40 hours

1393
00:56:16,700 --> 00:56:12,060
up ends 50 hours a week studying that

1394
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:16,710
from December of 2012 till now I did

1395
00:56:20,810 --> 00:56:19,410
start out being a very serious at it was

1396
00:56:22,010 --> 00:56:20,820
all about activism it was all about

1397
00:56:23,420 --> 00:56:22,020
getting to the streets it was all about

1398
00:56:25,250 --> 00:56:23,430
doing everything we can to get political

1399
00:56:28,700 --> 00:56:25,260
change and body buy so I would probably

1400
00:56:32,270 --> 00:56:28,710
have been lumped in the group that you

1401
00:56:34,130 --> 00:56:32,280
are you know critiquing there and then

1402
00:56:36,890 --> 00:56:34,140
the more I got into it and then when I

1403
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:36,900
started studying the abrupt climate

1404
00:56:42,310 --> 00:56:38,530
change

1405
00:56:44,670 --> 00:56:42,320
it is already in my estimation and the

1406
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:44,680
people I respect the most it is already

1407
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:48,530
beyond our control so there's no the

1408
00:56:52,329 --> 00:56:50,810
time is now not to be urgent it's not to

1409
00:56:54,910 --> 00:56:52,339
be panicked it's too late for that

1410
00:56:57,490 --> 00:56:54,920
the time is to notice what's happening

1411
00:57:00,070 --> 00:56:57,500
and build the strongest sense of

1412
00:57:02,109 --> 00:57:00,080
relationships of care and commitment and

1413
00:57:03,609 --> 00:57:02,119
community that you can with your family

1414
00:57:07,540 --> 00:57:03,619
your extended family your neighbors

1415
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:07,550
let's just start there and and find good

1416
00:57:11,620 --> 00:57:09,770
local work that you can be involved in

1417
00:57:14,370 --> 00:57:11,630
that can be a blessing to your community

1418
00:57:16,750 --> 00:57:14,380
or city or village your town whatever

1419
00:57:19,450 --> 00:57:16,760
but ultimately to be at peace with your

1420
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:19,460
mortality personally I'm speaking to you

1421
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:20,570
from where I went through cancer

1422
00:57:23,650 --> 00:57:22,130
treatment ten years ago what we thought

1423
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:23,660
I could die in the next eight months and

1424
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,210
so I have had that peak that peaceless

1425
00:57:31,570 --> 00:57:28,400
with my mortality for the last ten years

1426
00:57:33,609 --> 00:57:31,580
thankfully and but also be at peace with

1427
00:57:35,950 --> 00:57:33,619
our mortality species mortality because

1428
00:57:38,170 --> 00:57:35,960
whether we go extinct in ten years or

1429
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:38,180
five million years it's probably gonna

1430
00:57:41,980 --> 00:57:40,730
be in that window and even if it's five

1431
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:41,990
million years from now that's pretty

1432
00:57:46,839 --> 00:57:44,450
short that's like a week on the cosmic

1433
00:57:48,579 --> 00:57:46,849
century timeline so says Reverend

1434
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:48,589
Michael Dowd and he really isn't

1435
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:51,170
interested in debating whether or not

1436
00:57:56,620 --> 00:57:54,170
anyone holds another position I think

1437
00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:56,630
that's but I am most surprised about

1438
00:57:59,410 --> 00:57:58,010
there actually the way you just

1439
00:58:01,839 --> 00:57:59,420
characterized that is not accurate I'm

1440
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:01,849
not one of the things that I see is

1441
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:04,000
inevitable when I understand history is

1442
00:58:09,730 --> 00:58:07,280
as things contract as societies and

1443
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:09,740
Empires and civilizations contract and

1444
00:58:12,550 --> 00:58:11,330
contract is a better word to collapse

1445
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:12,560
because sometimes people think off a

1446
00:58:16,930 --> 00:58:14,690
cliff and it doesn't roll to three

1447
00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:16,940
hundred twenty years to collapse so as

1448
00:58:22,740 --> 00:58:20,000
societies contract there are all kinds

1449
00:58:25,450 --> 00:58:22,750
of ways of coping and understanding and

1450
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:25,460
denial is one of them but various kinds

1451
00:58:32,140 --> 00:58:28,730
of rejuvenation visions of possibility

1452
00:58:34,150 --> 00:58:32,150
and so I respect the diversity including

1453
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:34,160
your diversity because you convincing me

1454
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:35,930
or me convincing you is not going to

1455
00:58:40,180 --> 00:58:37,730
make a difference so whatever your

1456
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:40,190
beliefs are whatever your axes to grind

1457
00:58:45,339 --> 00:58:42,890
whatever debates you love having that is

1458
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:45,349
cool I don't debate people simply

1459
00:58:48,940 --> 00:58:47,359
because I honor where they're coming

1460
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:48,950
from as probably a coping mechanism

1461
00:58:52,900 --> 00:58:50,210
given what

1462
00:58:55,780 --> 00:58:52,910
we're actually dealing with or because

1463
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:55,790
you have a fascination for death cult

1464
00:59:01,620 --> 00:58:58,010
environmentalism and it feeds I just

1465
00:59:07,660 --> 00:59:01,630
said that I just said that right I just

1466
00:59:10,030 --> 00:59:07,670
I wish function on this show just to

1467
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:10,040
shout down everybody who doesn't agree

1468
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:12,290
with me on near-death experience science

1469
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:15,050
or parapsychology or any of the other

1470
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:17,440
topics we cover I wish I just had the

1471
00:59:22,420 --> 00:59:20,570
balls just to say you know what I don't

1472
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:22,430
care what you think I don't care what

1473
00:59:27,370 --> 00:59:24,410
your position is because I already know

1474
00:59:29,170 --> 00:59:27,380
the truth I'd first of all everything

1475
00:59:31,570 --> 00:59:29,180
you just characterized is not accurate

1476
00:59:34,210 --> 00:59:31,580
for me I care what people think I don't

1477
00:59:36,579 --> 00:59:34,220
try to convince them of anything no but

1478
00:59:38,829 --> 00:59:36,589
you don't care you yeah I don't I am NOT

1479
00:59:40,900 --> 00:59:38,839
you threatened to end the conversation

1480
00:59:43,530 --> 00:59:40,910
if we can't if Ike if I brought up

1481
00:59:46,180 --> 00:59:43,540
Judith Curry and her you know

1482
00:59:50,260 --> 00:59:46,190
peer-reviewed study that that is

1483
00:59:53,770 --> 00:59:50,270
carefully analyzed over years by a very

1484
00:59:56,890 --> 00:59:53,780
competent climatologist that sea level

1485
00:59:58,480 --> 00:59:56,900
rise isn't occurring right now and

1486
01:00:01,329 --> 00:59:58,490
that's just one you don't want to hear

1487
01:00:03,370 --> 01:00:01,339
it you shut that down and threatened

1488
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:03,380
that you'd end the meeting not that I

1489
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:04,730
don't care you can end the meeting at

1490
01:00:09,490 --> 01:00:06,650
any time you can edit right now before

1491
01:00:12,370 --> 01:00:09,500
you respond but you understand that your

1492
01:00:14,740 --> 01:00:12,380
your actions don't really back up your

1493
01:00:18,430 --> 01:00:14,750
words in terms of really want to engage

1494
01:00:23,950 --> 01:00:18,440
with the data Alex I made a promise to

1495
01:00:27,130 --> 01:00:23,960
myself seven years ago that I would not

1496
01:00:30,210 --> 01:00:27,140
debate anybody and it's not because I

1497
01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:30,220
think I'm right and they're screwed up a

1498
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:33,920
finish please this wasn't a debate but

1499
01:00:37,839 --> 01:00:35,810
but you have a debating style that's

1500
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:37,849
just your nature that's cool it's just

1501
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:40,010
not what I engage in and so I warned you

1502
01:00:43,780 --> 01:00:42,170
several times in the email page minute

1503
01:00:45,849 --> 01:00:43,790
for the last hour my friend you've

1504
01:00:49,329 --> 01:00:45,859
engaged in it for the last because it

1505
01:00:51,339 --> 01:00:49,339
would be rude for me to hang up and I am

1506
01:00:54,070 --> 01:00:51,349
interested in having a conversation and

1507
01:00:55,930 --> 01:00:54,080
I'm and I have no problem with you know

1508
01:00:57,940 --> 01:00:55,940
after this in the forum and stuff

1509
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:57,950
whatever you say about me you're gonna

1510
01:01:02,109 --> 01:00:59,839
say about me but I'm interested in

1511
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:02,119
simply sharing to the best that I can

1512
01:01:06,999 --> 01:01:04,730
what I find inspiring about a post doom

1513
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:07,009
world again post doom com

1514
01:01:10,779 --> 01:01:08,690
you can people can learn all about it am

1515
01:01:12,309 --> 01:01:10,789
i pro fit your faith course right there

1516
01:01:15,009 --> 01:01:12,319
Pro fit your faith that's that's what

1517
01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:15,019
I'm into and and it's and I I respect

1518
01:01:18,339 --> 01:01:16,640
the fact that others have a differing

1519
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:18,349
opinion and differing interpretation the

1520
01:01:22,089 --> 01:01:20,450
science different political views and

1521
01:01:25,599 --> 01:01:22,099
all that's just totally cool I don't

1522
01:01:27,970 --> 01:01:25,609
that's what happens I'm focused on what

1523
01:01:29,859 --> 01:01:27,980
I can focus on and I'm and I really love

1524
01:01:32,529 --> 01:01:29,869
focus on that because it gives me joy I

1525
01:01:34,539 --> 01:01:32,539
live a very joyous life I'm not a part

1526
01:01:37,779 --> 01:01:34,549
of the death cult as you say I'm at

1527
01:01:39,309 --> 01:01:37,789
peace with my mortality and our species

1528
01:01:41,980 --> 01:01:39,319
mortality because I think that there's a

1529
01:01:44,650 --> 01:01:41,990
probably better than 50% chance that we

1530
01:01:46,660 --> 01:01:44,660
will not last more than 50 60 years if

1531
01:01:48,849 --> 01:01:46,670
that our species but I think there's

1532
01:01:50,980 --> 01:01:48,859
also a 40 50 percent chance that some

1533
01:01:54,130 --> 01:01:50,990
pockets of us will survive for the next

1534
01:01:56,170 --> 01:01:54,140
2 3 4 million years I'll tell you what

1535
01:01:58,529 --> 01:01:56,180
that might be a great way to end it and

1536
01:02:02,200 --> 01:01:58,539
I really do and I mean this very

1537
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:02,210
sincerely I greatly respect your ability

1538
01:02:07,660 --> 01:02:03,920
to come in and stick it out for an hour

1539
01:02:09,609 --> 01:02:07,670
and our mutual you know willingness to

1540
01:02:11,859 --> 01:02:09,619
exchange and have a difficult

1541
01:02:13,660 --> 01:02:11,869
conversation and I thought only respect

1542
01:02:15,789 --> 01:02:13,670
come from I don't even mind your debate

1543
01:02:18,910 --> 01:02:15,799
non debate come stuff I think we hashed

1544
01:02:20,620 --> 01:02:18,920
all that out it's been I hope it's been

1545
01:02:22,479 --> 01:02:20,630
for me a great conversation I hope

1546
01:02:24,789 --> 01:02:22,489
people find it interesting find it

1547
01:02:26,710 --> 01:02:24,799
engaging and is there anything else we

1548
01:02:29,829 --> 01:02:26,720
should mention about your work we've

1549
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:29,839
mentioned the book thank God well thank

1550
01:02:34,660 --> 01:02:32,569
God for evolution I no longer I was

1551
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:34,670
still a techno optimist I still was a

1552
01:02:38,769 --> 01:02:36,559
technical peon I believe that evolution

1553
01:02:41,710 --> 01:02:38,779
was all about humans and that we were

1554
01:02:43,509 --> 01:02:41,720
part of a a process that was ongoing in

1555
01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:43,519
complexity I now no longer think so the

1556
01:02:47,890 --> 01:02:45,680
10% of that book I no longer agree with

1557
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:47,900
I really no longer agree with so I don't

1558
01:02:53,049 --> 01:02:50,650
even sell my own book anymore but the

1559
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:53,059
the the pro future faith course

1560
01:02:58,059 --> 01:02:54,890
absolutely a hundred percent I'm right

1561
01:02:59,440 --> 01:02:58,069
there and the and the post doing

1562
01:03:01,539 --> 01:02:59,450
conversations that are all freely

1563
01:03:04,479 --> 01:03:01,549
available and my main website is the

1564
01:03:06,339 --> 01:03:04,489
great story org the great story dot

1565
01:03:09,249 --> 01:03:06,349
o-r-g and and if you just click on

1566
01:03:10,779 --> 01:03:09,259
what's new all of my past sermons and

1567
01:03:12,700 --> 01:03:10,789
everything else and you know I'm all

1568
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:12,710
over YouTube although there is there's a

1569
01:03:16,180 --> 01:03:15,410
Michael Dowd that's the most notorious

1570
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:16,190
police officer

1571
01:03:21,130 --> 01:03:19,490
New York City history and so there was a

1572
01:03:23,079 --> 01:03:21,140
movie done about him a few years ago so

1573
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:23,089
if you google michael doubt there's a

1574
01:03:26,740 --> 01:03:24,650
lot of stuff on him and a lot of stuff

1575
01:03:29,140 --> 01:03:26,750
on me but yeah the great story Oregon

1576
01:03:30,819 --> 01:03:29,150
especially post doom calm is where

1577
01:03:32,859 --> 01:03:30,829
people can find out all kinds of stuff

1578
01:03:35,470 --> 01:03:32,869
about what I'm up to now these days but

1579
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:35,480
I do LA I really enjoyed it didn't seem

1580
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:36,890
like it cuz I got defensive a few times

1581
01:03:40,510 --> 01:03:38,810
I apologize for that but I knew that

1582
01:03:43,839 --> 01:03:40,520
this was gonna be a mud wrestling match

1583
01:03:46,510 --> 01:03:43,849
and I appreciate you having me on and

1584
01:03:49,930 --> 01:03:46,520
and doing what you do and doing it well

1585
01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:49,940
so thank you and I and and I'm sorry I

1586
01:03:53,170 --> 01:03:51,200
didn't allow you to play the Judith

1587
01:03:55,569 --> 01:03:53,180
Carrie thing I'm just I'm just not

1588
01:03:57,700 --> 01:03:55,579
interested in debating what one or two

1589
01:04:00,309 --> 01:03:57,710
or three or four scientists say because

1590
01:04:02,290 --> 01:04:00,319
I'm listening also to the hundreds or

1591
01:04:04,359 --> 01:04:02,300
more who are saying things about

1592
01:04:08,050 --> 01:04:04,369
sea-level rise for example that are

1593
01:04:11,770 --> 01:04:08,060
quite convincing to me well Michael

1594
01:04:16,359 --> 01:04:11,780
thanks again for being on and enjoyed it

1595
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:16,369
thanks Alex thanks again to Reverend

1596
01:04:20,589 --> 01:04:17,930
Michael Dodd for joining me today on

1597
01:04:23,380 --> 01:04:20,599
skeptic oh I do have a few questions I

1598
01:04:25,839 --> 01:04:23,390
would tee up from this interview and the

1599
01:04:29,740 --> 01:04:25,849
first has to do with what I call the

1600
01:04:31,750 --> 01:04:29,750
junk application of science you know

1601
01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:31,760
there's a lot of debate that is

1602
01:04:36,220 --> 01:04:34,160
reasonable and important to have about

1603
01:04:39,550 --> 01:04:36,230
climate but the one thing I think is

1604
01:04:44,710 --> 01:04:39,560
beyond debate is that we're witnessing

1605
01:04:48,790 --> 01:04:44,720
an unprecedented level of manipulation

1606
01:04:51,990 --> 01:04:48,800
of science junk science and we have to

1607
01:04:56,410 --> 01:04:52,000
begin to ask ourselves what is really

1608
01:04:58,720 --> 01:04:56,420
behind that and the second question I

1609
01:05:01,030 --> 01:04:58,730
guess that I tee up and I asked it in

1610
01:05:03,900 --> 01:05:01,040
the show and it's always interesting to

1611
01:05:07,180 --> 01:05:03,910
me for people who come at this from a

1612
01:05:09,910 --> 01:05:07,190
spiritual perspective or people who we

1613
01:05:12,550 --> 01:05:09,920
would expect to come at this from a

1614
01:05:16,660 --> 01:05:12,560
spiritual perspective the question I

1615
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:16,670
always throw out is does God really need

1616
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:19,760
our help on this one is this like some

1617
01:05:25,210 --> 01:05:22,130
special case where the all-powerful

1618
01:05:27,130 --> 01:05:25,220
almighty all-seeing God has said gee

1619
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:27,140
guys you really have to get behind me on

1620
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:29,370
this because I can't do it

1621
01:05:37,730 --> 01:05:32,610
you know does that send off any red

1622
01:05:40,730 --> 01:05:37,740
flags for you and I guess my third and

1623
01:05:44,810 --> 01:05:40,740
final question would be what's your

1624
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:44,820
biggest worry global warming or death

1625
01:05:52,190 --> 01:05:49,050
cult environmentalists and I think after

1626
01:05:53,170 --> 01:05:52,200
listening to this interview you know

1627
01:05:56,570 --> 01:05:53,180
what I mean

1628
01:05:58,790 --> 01:05:56,580
so that'll do it I guess for this

1629
01:06:00,890 --> 01:05:58,800
episode I do look forward to seeing what

1630
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:00,900
you have to say join me on The Skeptical

1631
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:03,930
forum if you want to chat and discuss

1632
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:06,090
these topics with other folks who listen

1633
01:06:10,010 --> 01:06:08,250
to the show be sure to check out the

1634
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:10,020
skeptical web site where you'll find all

1635
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:11,970
these shows available for free for

1636
01:06:17,660 --> 01:06:14,850
download mp3 no commercials no firewall

1637
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:17,670
anything like that and we cover a lot of

1638
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:20,610
topics that you might be interested in

1639
01:06:26,090 --> 01:06:23,970
this was really kind of an unusual topic

1640
01:06:28,370 --> 01:06:26,100
to cover but I guess it did hit a lot of

1641
01:06:30,290 --> 01:06:28,380
the things that were interested in as

1642
01:06:35,090 --> 01:06:30,300
well as I said in the beginning of the

1643
01:06:37,700 --> 01:06:35,100
show so if you like this stuff come join

1644
01:06:39,140 --> 01:06:37,710
us and if you're already a listener and

1645
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:39,150
you feel like there's other people who

1646
01:06:43,670 --> 01:06:41,690
need to hear it let them know about it

1647
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:43,680
so that's going to do it for this

1648
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:46,050
episode I have some interesting stuff

1649
01:06:53,930 --> 01:06:49,680
coming up please stay with me for all of

1650
01:06:56,140 --> 01:06:53,940
that until next time take care and bye